THINKING ANGLICANS

Pope: funeral reports

Guardian
John Hooper The final farewell
Stephen Bates Close encounters of a diplomatic kind

The Times
Richard Owen Faithful demand instant sainthood
Ruth Gledhill Commentary: the cult of John Paul will ensure his sainthood

Telegraph
Jonathan Petre Make him a saint the people cry as, watched by the world, Pope John Paul II is laid to rest

Independent
Peter Popham Sea of mourners bid farewell with tears and cheers

BBC
Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor and Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan WIlliams talked, on the Today Programme yesterday to Edward Stourton of the Pope John Paul II. Real Audio required. Listen here

Update
Bishop John Flack’s diary for the week
other related material

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edmund wellsblsJames ColemanAlan HarrisonAndrew Conway Recent comment authors
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Graham Kings
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Concerning John Paul II, there is a sharp internal debate in The Independent between atheist Johann Hari and Catholic Paul Vallely. On 8 April 2005, Johann Hari, regular columnist of The Independent, wrote an almost vitriolic assessment of John Paul II, entitled ‘History will judge the Pope far more harshly than the adoring crowds in Rome.’ His last sentence was: ‘I do not believe John Paul II will face a Judgement Day in ‘Heaven’. But one day, the fatuous tributes of the past week will rot, and his name will be cursed here on earth.’ http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/story.jsp?story=627335 On 9 April 2005,… Read more »

Christopher Shell
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Christopher Shell

Is Johan Hari (spelling?) arguing from the basis ‘the more condoms the less AIDS’? It aint that simple, because there are other factors involved. A nation that sees condoms as the answer is a nation already committed to the inevitability of promiscuity. This is a manifestly incoherent position since in any period of history there are many societies that demonstrate that promiscuity is far from inevitable. HIV/AIDS appeared in Thailand and the Philippines around the same time. Thailand’s answer was condoms. In the Philippines the condom solution was rejected by the state and by the Catholic Church. Thailand now has… Read more »

Andrew Conway
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Andrew Conway

Hari talks a lot of sense when it comes to politics, but has a complete blind-spot when it comes to religion. He makes some good points in that article (e.g. the Vatican’s friendly relations with Pinochet; always guaranteed to make liberal Catholics squirm uncomfortably), but his rhetoric is so wildly over the top that it is impossible to take him seriously. Christopher: a lot of AIDS activists, Catholic and non-Catholic, believe that the best way forward lies in the so-called ABC approach to the disease (A for abstinence, B for being faithful, C for condoms). You ought to approve of… Read more »

edmund wells
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edmund wells

see also Vallely’s John paul II: bad for the church but good for the world? http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=627506

edmund wells
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edmund wells

That link seems not to work now. So here’s the Vallely article: Reaction to the death of Pope John Paul II has been starkly polarised. Awed enthusiasts have been unstinting in their praise. Critics have been withering in their condemnation of his reactionary views, particular in sexual matters. But many within the church have been muted while the body of the Pope lay unburied. Now that the funeral is over, and as the 116 cardinal electors begin their secret discussions in the run up to the conclave to choose the next pope, evaluations of the last Pope’s 26-year ministry will… Read more »

Alan Harrison
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Alan Harrison

Unfortunately, the Hari and Vallely articles are now behind a pay-per-view wall. (The Indy seems now to operate like Teenage Spankers in Bondage – tame freebies to tempt you to come inside!) I note that the free bit of Hari’s article cheerfully accuses Pope John Paul of being responsible for more deaths than “the notorious Pius XII”. The mind boggles at the thought of that rather ascetic pontiff as the Harold Shipman of the Vatican.

James Coleman
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James Coleman

Johan Hari is at least as self-righteous and judgmental as those he condemns – without, howeve, any transcendent basis to his judgments since he is an atheist. Who cares what ‘history’ will think, since ‘history’ means only what (some) people will think at some later date? Absent divine judgment, it will not affect the dead and will probably be overruled by a later ‘history’. Appeals to the verdict of ‘history’ are simply the shadow of a defunct relgious belief which even one so self-assured as Johan Hari, in all his 26 years of earthly life, can’t shake off. The clue… Read more »

bls
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bls

Actually, Hari boasted of “seducing homophobes” – and he makes it clear that he thinks that most homophobes of the rabid type are gay themselves. In any case, a “seduction” involves two people. Why is Mr. Hari, then, the one “depraved”?

But I do find it interesting that this is what you find “depraved,” rather than the rabid, ranting anti-Semitism and sick homophobia he talks about in his articles.

edmund wells
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edmund wells

re alan harrision’s comments. I made a copy of the Vallely article went it appeared and paste it below. unfortunately though i read the johann hari article i didn’t think it worth keeping. Incidentally the Independent dropped its Faith & Reason column in its redesign on Saturday. I hope it’s just a temporaray blip, and will return. It is one of the best things in the paper. EW Faith & Reason: Critics need a different stick with which to beat the Pope The Catholic ban on the use of condoms may be wrong, but it is not the real problem… Read more »