Thinking Anglicans

more American church reports

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had this report on the state of the Episcopal Church yesterday: A church in crisis.

And the Witness recently published this article by Daniel Webster Waging Fragmentation.

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LeoStevenDavid Rowett (= mynsterpreost)New HereCheryl Clough Recent comment authors
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New Here
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New Here

Here’s my email to the Star-Telegram (deservedly known to many Texans as “The Startlegram”): Today’s article on the possible schism in the Episcopal Church is, without a doubt, the most unbalanced and poorly written piece I have seen on this issue, and I follow the subject closely. There is not even the slightest pretense of balance here: both named sources in the article are members of the schismatic faction. To quote, without challenge, figures from the American Anglican Council is equivalent to writing, “The Bush Administration has been an abject failure and will go down to ignominious defeat, according to… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
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Nice letter, New Here. It’s a slight tangent and could be linked to a number of threads, but this is the most recent… I found this today http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/2006/9/1/16357/95188 where the author rightly cautions us that we will always have the religious right. If you read the OT, there is evidence there that God found self-righteous puritanical scribes frustrating, as did Jesus find the hard core Pharisees. The author also warns us that a culture of ignorance and political expediency allows such souls to gain much more control than is appropriate. It is worth reading as the author refers us to… Read more »

Steven
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Steven

“We will always have the religious right.” Hmmm. An interesting point, but one that leads to the obvious counter-point: We will also always have to put up with the religious left with its syncretism and orgies. So it goes I suppose. And, even while it is true that the Lord found those that went too far in trying to be obedient to be a pain in the neck, it is also obvious from the whole witness of scripture that the opposite tendency towards syncretism and licentiousness was far more of a problem over the long history of the people of… Read more »

New Here
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New Here

Thanks, Cheryl. The Startlegram had a chance to educate its readers about this issue but instead produced another lazy exercise in journalism-as-stenography.

And Steven, I agree that a gracious parting of the ways would be best, but I don’t think it will happen so long as things are being run by those who hope to “steal the franchise” because they “like a good fight.”

J. C. Fisher
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J. C. Fisher

“Those called “reasserters” believe they stand firmly in the middle on the Biblical witness, and (looking to their left) believe that the “reappraisers” have erred seriously from the truth. The reappraisers (meanwhile) look to their right and say the same thing of the reasserters.”

Yep. However, the (your words) “reappraisers” are still quite willing to share table fellowship w/ the “reasserters”—trusting that *GOD* will decide who’s right and who’s wrong (most likely, BOTH are the latter! *g*)

If we can be “gracious” in parting, then why need we part? The Grace of Christ IS more than sufficient to keep us *together*…

David Huff
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David Huff

Steven wrote: “We will also always have to put up with the religious left with its syncretism and orgies.”

Orgies ? Darn, I guess I’ve been going to all the wrong Leftist meetings ;-} All of us awful “reappraisers” here just sit around and talk about, oh, you know… the Bible, church stuff, how to remain part of TEC in a “Network” diocese, etc…

drdanfee
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drdanfee

Let’s just take a provisional guess. Read between the lines a little. The reason we have to split the Anglican Communion is because if we do not split the communion, the slow, ever so slow, daily groundswell is for neighbors agreeing to disagree while they try to live in a modicum of peace. Standing ready for final doomsday war is hardly a stance that most people can manage as the core basis for leading their daily lives – except in deprived countries where indeed, survival cannot be daily taken for granted. Who’s probably closest to harming somebody, right now? Bishop… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Orgies? Well at least we have an honest conservative – who will publicly espouse in writing what they say about us “off the record”. Ten points for honesty, and don’t blush too heavily about the incorrect character assassination. My other favourites are the type who put on their Klu Klux Klan outfits and lynch a few people, and then hide the evidence and charm the grandmothers at the Sunday services. Or the modern version, who recommend to their colleagues that everything be done verbally, and most especially avoid in the internet as evidence has the habit of getting into the… Read more »

Steven
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Steven

David: Concise and nicely done, but you misunderstand my remark. Cheryl: A very creative and doubtless heart-felt rant, sprinkled with plenty of “character assassination” for spice. (I, for one, have not worn my Ku Klux Klan robe in years–sarcasm intended). However, you also misunderstand my remark. And, looking at it again, I can understand why. My apologies. The remark was made while in a historical frame of mind, thinking about the long history of the people of God (in the Old Testament particularly) where syncretism was generally associated with orgiastic assemblies–“orgies” if you will. And, while I definitely see some… Read more »

Steven
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Steven

New Here: Your closing remarks make it obvious you do not understand what I mean by “gracious”–i.e., your “steal the franchise” verbiage indicates the usual “our way or the highway” attitude typical of most (but not all) TEC liberals. JC: If only for your sake, I wish it were so. You have your “off” days like the rest of us, but you are much more consistently gracious than most. However, for it to be true, someone must be willing to sit at the back of the bus in terms of this issue–to be quiet, submissive, and willing to let the… Read more »

New Here
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New Here

Steven, the “franchise” figure of speech is Canon Anderson’s: “We anticipate that at some point, the global communion will remove the Anglican franchise from the Episcopal church and grant it to another entity.”

It’s disturbing to find the church discussed as though it is a hamburger joint, but then I’m just one of those heathen pansexualists, so what do I know?

Steven
Guest
Steven

New Here:

I have no problem with what Canon Anderson said–though I find it a bit far-fetched. However, your addition of the word “steal” to his quote, as well as your inclusion of it within quotation marks, does give me problems.

Steven

P.S.-Even “heathen pansexualists”–borrowing your own self description–should know better.

Cheryl Clough
Guest

Steven, Your apology is accepted. There are those who accuse us falsely, and there is a plethora of documentation of how people have been black-listed based on lies and that black-listing has meant that the whole of their arguments are dismissed out of hand. The latter is incredibly sloppy thinking, because they could at least be trying to pluck the gems out of the mess. But they often lose the whole bundle, which is sad because there are so many good things that could be done if people weren’t so frightened of collaboration. The fear of being unable to work… Read more »

New Here
Guest
New Here

Steven, that was a mistake. I had heard the phrase elsewhere and assumed it was genuine, but a quick Google search doesn’t turn it up anywhere.

So I stand corrected on that one.

Still, I find it very disheartening to hear the church treated as a brand name that can be handed over to a new management team. It certainly furthers the impression that all this is a squabble over property and power.

David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)
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David Rowett (= mynsterpreost)

Re: pinching the franchise: what a pity Avignon is ‘twinned’ with Colchester (Essex, UK) and not with a Global South outpost.

Steven
Guest
Steven

New Here: No problem on the mistake. I know from personal experience that one can, in the heat of composition, sometimes make errors of this type. However, I don’t think the use of “franchise” in a figurative sense necessarily indicates that this is “only” a squabble over property and power. Just as equally, there is no doubt in my mind (whatever Anderson’s intentions in making his remark) that these two issues play into the equations at some point — on both sides. Otherwise, liberals would be urging conservatives to “have it their way” on all the issues and to take… Read more »

Leo
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Twenty years of struggle against AIDS. Grassroots campaign against AIDS. The struggle to find a cure for AIDS has contributed to other areas… WBR LeoP