Thinking Anglicans

"covenant" cartoon

See Dave Walker’s take on The conservative evangelical ‘covenant’.

Update And I also want to second his commendation of the splendid comment about all this by Paul Roberts which you can find at A lament for Evangelicalism.

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mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)PluralistChristopher ShelllaurenceGöran Koch-Swahne Recent comment authors
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Cheryl Clough
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I concur with Dave Walker’s comment that if you are going to read only one of the links in his article, then read this one:
http://www.fulcrum-anglican.org.uk/news/2006/20061214wright.cfm?doc=171

It is an excellent analysis of the issues with the “new covenant” and how it was done.

Cheryl Clough
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Blush

Simon had linked to this article earlier. I thought he had and went back browsing before doing the last posting, but not far enough. If you didn’t read it last time, do make the effort this time…

Charlotte
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Charlotte

The back-and-forth comments on Dave Walker’s blog article are also worth reading.

I hadn’t realized that Anglican Mainstream has also developed the habit of signing other people’s names to manifestos and communiques they have not seen, much less approved.

This is becoming a common tactic of the extreme Anglican right.

I have to say I don’t understand why, since it’s easily exposed, damages their credibility, and alienates their potential supporters.

Dave
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Dave

I think the “Covenant” is more a list of complaints and resolutions than a proposed alternative to the Anglican Covenant. However I don’t think that the Archbishop should let himself think that this isn’t meant to be taken very seriously… Many people in the CofE would agree with most of the points that they made, as is [possibly] confirmed by the vote about it on the Church Times website: http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/previousQuestions.asp?id=222 ps For TEC folk: CTimes is the CofE ‘establishment’ newspaper; Church of England Newspaper is the more evangelical (and older) one. pps Almost unnoticed, it seems, the conservative high church… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
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“ps For TEC folk: CTimes is the CofE ‘establishment’ newspaper; Church of England Newspaper is the more evangelical (and older) one.”

Don’t worry Dave (any of them), we have been told…

Christopher Shell
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Christopher Shell

‘The Church Times’ is the establishment newspaper: That is precisely the point. The powers that be want nothing more than to get the church onside. To get bishops opposing pro-life from the House of Lords. And so on. In the days of Jesus the high priests and Sadducees had for some time been ‘onside’ with the secular authorities, and appointments were made accordingly. The fact that C of E bishops are partly appointed by the state (plus the old-school-tie factor, thankfully diminishing now)explains why in this denomination alone some leaders are secular as opposed to sacred. In the same tradition,… Read more »

laurence
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laurence

I appreciated very much, Christopher Shell’s argument for gay rights.

Pluralist
Guest

I’m against the establishment of the Church of England; it would be healthier set free. Bishops should be elected, to be given the old hands on the head by existing ones. However, the State connection has been a double bind. The parish priests so often put in amongst the rural locals from their university background, and often elite university education, were seen as establishment figures from a different world. When the urban centres came along, they had next to nothing to say to the developed working class, other than to shave off minorities. Later on the middle class more and… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
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mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Dr Shell opined
The fact that C of E bishops are partly appointed by the state (plus the old-school-tie factor, thankfully diminishing now)explains why in this denomination alone some leaders are secular as opposed to sacred.

Eh? Don’t quite know who you mean. Church Commissioners? enlighten me – or are you making calculations as to the genuineness of faith of the ones you don’t agree with?

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
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mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Pluralist said…
“and symbolism and postmodernism separates liturgy and belief into a more explicit orthopraxy not orthodoxy with insights into language and metaphor.”

Blimey! I’m going to have to put a lot more work into my midnight mass sermon than I’d intended, Dr. W…!

Christopher Shell
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Christopher Shell

Laurence-

Which argument was that?

Pluralist
Guest

Don’t worry, Rev. Mynsterpreost, regarding your later sermon, as I do have moments of rest and sleep, though usually and unfortunately not at midnight. I suggest perhaps other issues then, such as a contrast between the sharp sermon that is like using a car going directly from A to B, and the developed sermon that is like using public transport when visiting the sick in different hospitals: changing tack, going in unusal directions against the grain, stopping along the way to pick people up and lose some others, lurching from one point to another, being close to other people –… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
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mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

For those intrigued by pluralist’s references, I made the mistake yesterday of trying to reduce my ‘carbon footprint’ by using public transport for hospital visiting.

Two hospitals in one city of 300,000 , one on the north-western, other on the north-eastern edge, perhaps five miles away. Dropped off at hospital 1 at 10.15, got home at 18.10, total contact time with the sick, 90 minutes….