Thinking Anglicans

opinions on some other topics

Sharia-free zone

Giles Fraser wrote in the G2 section of the Guardian about his recent American travels, God moves to the left.

And he also wrote in the Church Times about Lambeth: a conference of shame.

Christopher Howse wrote in the Daily Telegraph about Dog-collars on the footplate. (Note to American readers: “footplate” is explained here.)

John Wilkins writes in The Times that Divine justice is perfect and tempered with mercy.

Alec Gilmore writes in the Guardian’s Face to Faith column about the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity.

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Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

Once again, Giles Fraser gets it right. The Christian Right in the USA got all the press because it was a)noisy and b)organized. The Christian Left–quietly going about its proper business of loving God and its neighbor, but in no organized fashion–was ignored or worse, thought to be non-existent.

One nitpick, Giles, it’s not the “Inland Revenue Service” over here, it’s the INTERNAL Revenue Service.

Steven
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Steven

An interesting article by Giles Fraser. As an American, it reminds me of the fact that those not of these shores sometimes spend a lot of time engaging with their own stereotypes rather than the diverse realities of American Christianity. However, since we all end up doing this–perhaps more often than not–I can’t criticize overmuch. Giles observations are no surprise to me, I am very familiar with big city liberal churches–some of which are growing well. This leads to some of my prior observations about the “blue-ing” of liberal Christianity in America, and especially the withering of liberal anglican parishes… Read more »

counterlight
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counterlight

“Is there no field of Christian endeavor where conservative Christianity is not stronger and liberal Christianity weaker?” Yes, Social Justice. When it comes to everything from civil rights to economic fairness and democracy, the conservatives have brought up the rear. The same is true for the enfranchisement of women and sexual minorities. When I was a boy, and Martin Luther King Jr. was marching through the South arm in arm with (then much villified) white liberal clergy, my conservative evangelical Texas neighbors were still pointing to the story of Ham in Genesis as proof that God intended the races to… Read more »

drdanfee
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drdanfee

Well so far as we know, Pasadena All Saints is putting its money where its mouth is – liberal and social justice activisms, too. Thanks to the constant noisy drumming of the Anglican realignment campaign however, they do not get credit because the campaign starts off defining them as not being real Anglicans, nor real believers. Rather than comparisons and measures, I would like to see what TEC PB KJS – we are acronym USA – and others have called joining in common worship, common witness whenever we can about the large agreed things (like the Chicago Lambeth Quad), and… Read more »

Davis d'Ambly
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Davis d'Ambly

Thanks, Simon, for a Sharia Free Zone…

Martin Reynolds
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I liked Giles in the Church Times sooo much.

Thank you mate!

JCF
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JCF

[Counterlight, I think you misunderstood Steven’s question]

“Is there no field of Christian endeavor where conservative Christianity is not stronger and liberal Christianity weaker?”

I’ll bite.

To the extent that conservative Christianity is synonymous w/ “anti-reproductive choice”, I think that ConXians’ support for impoverished women w/ unplanned pregnancies is admirable [However much I disdain the (non-Biblical) ideology which *commands* them to Stay Pregnant].

“the withering of liberal anglican parishes in red America–a tendency that doesn’t seem to be true in the reverse”

I’d need to see some (reasonably objective) data re this assertion, Steven.

Prior Aelred
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I’m glad that Giles Fraser has left Plato alone this week — two very fine pieces (IMHO).

FWIW, there is a growing backlash against the SBC in American Baptist churches & (as Bishop Jones noted in a earlier Guardian piece) a growing appreciation of environmental & social justice issues amongst American Evangelicals generally:
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14521.html
(BTW — I am not a fan of John Grisham’s books)

Malcolm+
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From Fraser’s Church Times article:

“Look at it this way: you are hosting a children’s party for all the members of your child’s school class. You receive a delegation from a number of mothers who say that their child won’t be coming to the party if the black kid in the class is going to be there as well. Do you really not invite the black child? Even asking the question is morally revolting — let alone acceding to it.”

What more need be said.

Malcolm+
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On Fraser’s Guardian article:

One of the frustrations of being a progressive Christian in North America is that the religious right denies we are Christian, while the secular left denies we are progressive.

This is particularly ironic in Canada where two of the first four federal leaders of the left wing party were clergyman, and a third was an Anglican lay reader. Much of the original leadership of the CCF-NDP was from the Social Gospel tradition within Protestantism.

Cheryl Va. Clough
Guest

“Is there no field of Christian endeavor where conservative Christianity is not stronger and liberal Christianity weaker?” Have 10 blind souls describe an elephant based on being able to on touch 10 sq inches. You’ll get very different descriptions if one is given an eye, an ear, a foot, or a trunk. Steven’s question has so many answers depending on perspective. One comment is that there are many in this world who perceive as success relying on numerical and authoritative control, and are prepared to use any means to get to their end. There are times where God uses great… Read more »

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“I think that ConXians’ support for impoverished women w/ unplanned pregnancies is admirable”

Beg pardon? What support? I clearly need enlightenment. Conservative Christians, as far as I can see, consistently oppose most public social welfare programs, and I am not aware, though I concede my ignorance and ask for enlightenment, of any attempts by conservative Christians to do anything for impoverished women with unplanned pregnacies other than fling the scattered bit of second hand baby clothes in their general direction. Or is my sarcasm meter in need of a tune-up?

Mark
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Mark

Steven said, “I admire liberal activism for and on behalf of the poor and the environment. Many Biblical conservatives do and are involved in such activities as well.” He then asked, “Is there no field of Christian endeavor where conservative Christianity is not stronger and liberal Christianity weaker?” I’m not sure I buy the distinction at all, especially if you’re talking about liberals in the Anglican tradition vs conservatives in the Anglican tradition — as Steven himself says, many biblical conservatives are involved in the same thing as biblical liberals. In any case, I’ve never bought the conservative line that… Read more »

Cheryl Va. Clough
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Ford Your gifts as a rebuking prophet are showing. Sometimes it’s okay to bat against the worst behaviours and not soften it with some platitude. Rebuking prophets shake souls out of their complacency. Some will be offended by what you said, but then contemplate that the accusation is fair to be said against how many of their fellow Christians deport themselves. It is exactly these kind of rebukes that have taken people back to be bible to rediscover that God cares about the occupants of this world, that we are meant to revere what God gives us, offer hospitality and… Read more »

david wh
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david wh

Giles, together with several commentators here, is misrepresenting conservatives when he asserts that gays are not welcome (at Lambeth or at conservative churches).

There will be Bishops at Lambeth who are sexually attracted to people of the same sex, and there are many members of conservative churches who experience the same attractions.

Cheryl Va. Clough
Guest

David Wh is mispresenting when he acknowledges gays will be at these conferences.

As previously raised by TA subscribers in the past, not all are honest about their sexuality (it is undisclosed and not “public” knowledge).

There are also some who are “celibate” and thus “okay” whilst their heterosexual compatriots might have unremarkedly enjoyed sexual relief from their spouse the morning before attending the conference with no accountability nor guilt.

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“There will be Bishops at Lambeth who are sexually attracted to people of the same sex, and there are many members of conservative churches who experience the same attractions.” So, it’s OK for bishops who “experience attractions” to members of the same sex to be at Lambeth as long as they aren’t honest about it? Gee, glad to know dishonesty is a Christian value. As to the whole “experience attractions” nonsense, that is one Evangelical catch phrase that we must oppose. Being gay is NOT something I “experience”, never mind what some conservative preacher has told you. I am not… Read more »

JCF
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JCF

Hey Ford, I tried! 😉 Of course, I’m not talking about conservative socio-economic policies: no doubt about it, liberals are on Jesus’ side in that one, too. But I *do* believe that ConEvs provide *direct, hands-on assistance* to “unwed mothers” (their term), out of their anti-choice ideology, which often exceeds (in a personal way) the more “macro” help of liberals [NB: “often” is NOT “always”] The main thing is, I was trying to cut Steven some slack, and see things from his perspective. Steven, I hope you can see how DIFFICULT this is for a liberal like me. While *I*… Read more »