Thinking Anglicans

San Joaquin Special Convention reports

Updated again Sunday noon

Fr Jake has links to several first-hand reports from Friday evening in Healing Begins in Stockton.

Some further information about that Standing Committee which Fr Martins and others wrote about, is contained in this comment on Stand Firm. It appears that three of the remaining six (out of eight original) members are planning to leave TEC after all. (I am open to correction on this.)

The Anglican Communion Office has recorded here that the see is vacant. And now added the new diocesan website.

Episcopal News Service has San Joaquin Episcopalians anchor reorganization in themes of resurrection, hope and the full text of Presiding Bishop’s address to San Joaquin diocesan convention and San Joaquin Episcopalians celebrate new beginning.

Early press reports:

Reuters Episcopal bishop elected in disputed California diocese and this also appears in the Washington Post.

Central Valley Business Times Episcopal Church reorganizes in Central Valley

This includes an audio file of the press conference.

Lodi News-Sentinel Episcopal diocese reorganizes in Lodi, might allow gay priests

Fr Jake has more first-hand comments at San Joaquin: “We’re Back!” and also here and here.

The Living Church has a report from Friday night, Presiding Bishop Seeking Quicker Way to Intervene Before Other Dioceses Leave.

Fresno Bee Episcopal diocese selects new temporary bishop

Stockton Record Episcopal Diocese has new leader

KFSN Fresno A Call For Healing (includes video)

Modesto Bee Bishop delivers healing message

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Malcolm+Pat O'NeillMargaretGöran Koch-SwahneCharlotte Recent comment authors
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Margaret
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Margaret

“The Anglican Communion Office has recorded here that the see is vacant.”

He did of course resign — though I understand that the TEC is yet to accept his resignation. Perhaps deposition is the new way of accepting one’s resignation in the TEC world of tolerance!

Margaret
Guest
Margaret

Hi with regard to the composition of the standing committee — I know none of the details, but there are these follow up post on Dan Martin’s site to the question asked both on Standfirm as you linked and on his site. I thought since they were not on the Standfirm site people might miss them: Message 1: Dan Martins said… To Anon at 10:08–I am aware of the developments you cite. They are the direct result of 815’s wicked intransigence. Visalia and Modesto could probably have been retained by TEC had there been a mere honest desire to do… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

PB Katharine Jefferts Schori, to assembled SJ Episcopalians: “As you seek a renewed life together in Christ, you are going to be invited to remember who and whose you are, why you’re here, and what you’re going to do about it … I have just a few reminders as you seek answers to those questions: 1) Jesus is Lord. In the same sense that Jesus is Lord, and not Caesar, remember that no one else — not any hierarch, not any ecclesiastical official, not any one of you, is Lord. We belong to God, whom we know in Jesus, and… Read more »

Margaret
Guest
Margaret

As one who is usually accused of the heinous criminal offense of being conservative on this blog (a new and usual experience actually!) I must say that this is an impressive speech. I sincerely regret she did not make it earlier as that would have saved a lot of ink and angst. It does of course raise the question of why now: the cynic in me says it is because she knew even the “liberals” in this conservative diocese were too conservative to appreciate the hesitations and parsing of previous speeches, and so she spoke in a way that would… Read more »

dr.primrose
Guest
dr.primrose

Under the 1976 Supreme Court case of Serbian Orthodox Diocese v. Milivojevich, the American civil courts are almost certainly barred under the U.S. Constitution from determining who is the proper bishop of a church and whether the church properly followed its own canons in determining who the real bishop is. If Schofield or anyone else wants to contest Lamb’s election, there chances of getting anywhere in the civil courts are very, very small.

Carl
Guest

Margaret: Try to open your mind to honesty and then consider joining some other Church.. Anglo
Baptist, perhaps.

Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Guest
Leonardo Ricardo, San Juan, Puerto Rico

So let it be known thoroughout the Anglican Communion that Remain Episcopal members and ALL the growing numbers of loyal Laity of San Joaquin, The Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori, President Bonnie Anderson of the House of Deputies, The Executive Council, The Chancellor, The House of Bishops and The Original and Authentic Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin has restored themselves to sanity and good will…with Gods “will” (and lots of other positive support from those to wish to Love God and Love “others”)…Three women are NOW recognized as Priests in The Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin and The Episcopal Church, once… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

“815’s wicked intransigence…This is pure villainy… the successive and blatant canonical violations and abuse of process that the Presiding Bishop has perpetrated”

…and blessed [is she] when men revile [her] and persecute [her] and utter all kinds of evil against [her] falsely on [Christ’s] account. Rejoice and be glad, for [her] reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before [her]!

CHRIST IS RISEN, and followers of the Father-of-Lies can only spread their mendacity in vain! 😀

Charlotte
Guest
Charlotte

Margaret is misrepresenting the facts.

counterlight
Guest
counterlight

Bravo and well done to the faithful Episcopalians of San Joaquin! They’ve taken a long drawn out catastrophe and turned it into a new beginning. They’ve set an example for the rest of our Church and for the world. As the Presiding Bishop said in her address, they can now open the doors to those still considered strangers, including migrant farm workers and returning veterans with their families. May San Joaquin, once a byword for religious estrangement, become an oasis where strangers become friends. The faithful remnant there are well along the path to that goal. Applause and gratitude for… Read more »

Brian R
Guest
Brian R

Margaret, I have never understood how a woman can hold views like yours. It must result from a huge amount of self-loathing. I do understand as I was brought up in the evangelical diocese of Sydney to believe such things about myself as a gay man. Praise be to God I have experienced His Love. I will pray that you might also experience it one day.

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Margaret

“As one who is usually accused of the heinous criminal offense of being conservative on this blog “

I suppose you mean me.
But your problem is that you feel attacked when no-one actually attacks you.
There is nothing wrong with being conservative. There is everything wrong with constantly attacking people and dismissing what they say.
Of course, if the shoe fits….

I really do wish you had actually READ what I said in my last posts to you on http://thinkinganglicans.org.uk/mt/comments?entry_id=2955

http://www.thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/2008_03.html
PB visits South Carolina, 5th March

before accusing me of hating you.

And I still wish you had replied to my actual question.

ettu
Guest
ettu

Fortunately things are stabilizing and life will eventually go back to “normal” – therefore, I felt further posts were uncalled for on my part until I read Margaret’s posts. I cannot help but feel sorrow and compassion for the black bile and pain present in them and so I pray she is able to find the broad way to love and peace – in Christ

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“”The Anglican Communion Office has recorded here that the see is vacant.”

He did of course resign — though I understand that the TEC is yet to accept his resignation. Perhaps deposition is the new way of accepting one’s resignation in the TEC world of tolerance!”

This is part of a long tradition with people who have transgressed in their jobs:

“I quit.”

“You can’t quit, you’re fired.”

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“”It led to the first great council in Jerusalem, which didn’t easily or fully resolve the issue. The struggles have not stopped since — either in Jerusalem or in the wider church” True — and the use of church councils has been the mechanism for settling things since — so why has the TEC gone in the face of the international church and made the whole row so much more inflamed instead of working through the issues in the way that the Apostles did to reach consensus?” First, because Lambeth is NOT a “church council.” Want to have such a… Read more »

Lois Keen
Guest

To all in the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin, grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. May you find blessing, healing and resurrection in your new life. The reports from your compatriots at Father Jake’s blog are of such joy and thanks to God that I pray your spirit will spread throughout our church and the Anglican Communion. God bless and keep you all, always, God bless Bp. Lamb, and God bless our ++Katharine! Christ is risen indeed. Alleluia!
Lois

Margaret
Guest
Margaret

I will list the substance of most comments on my post to date: “Try to open your mind to honesty and then consider joining some other Church.. Anglo Baptist, perhaps.” “Margaret is misrepresenting the facts.” [that is it – no explanation, no rebuttal, no nothing!!!] “Margaret, I have never understood how a woman can hold views like yours. It must result from a huge amount of self-loathing …” etc “….I cannot help but feel sorrow and compassion for the black bile and pain present in them …” Can I ask whether you find this is the kind of collection you… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest

The Anglican Communion Office website has been listing San Joaquin as “vacant” for some weeks – indeed, almost immediately following the schismatic synod.

What has changed is that the website link provided is now to the Diocese of San Joaquin (Episcopal Church) as opposed to the official website of the Schofieldian schism.

kieran crichton
Guest
kieran crichton

“and most importantly, let me say that again MOST IMPORTANTLY I think comments should have thoughtful content — not personal abuse. Posted by: Margaret on Monday, 31 March 2008 at 1:08am BST” Wherever you are in the world, Margaret, one cannot get past your earlier post in which you do some serious analytical harm to the words of the Presiding Bishop of TEC. If that passes as ‘thoughtful content’ by your standards, then I say Kyrie Eleison. And since you claim to have argued in favor of gay unions in another denomination, why do you appear to support some of… Read more »

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Margaret thank you for your comment. But please, for the last time, bear with me. The last thread you would like to close ended with me telling you that the examples of active conservative hatred against gays I gave were real. That I was grateful that you found them as distasteful as I did. And I concluded by asking whether you and I could not get together to campaign against such hatred and violence. I said that it would not stop you to campaign against homosexuality being accepted in church, nor would it stop me from campaigning for its acceptance.… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“Pat — if Lambeth is not a church council then can you tell me what it is? I know the conservative blogs think it is a tea party because no one takes any notice of the resolutions it passes (eg Lambeth 1.10), but I would not have thought that being ineffectual made it any less the mind of the communion.” It is a meeting of the bishops for conversation, reflection and spiritual communion. It is not intended to make policy for a “church” that does not exist…particularly since the various churches represented by those attending have never given those bishops… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

“As one who is usually accused of the heinous criminal offense of being conservative on this blog” Margaret, neither you nor anyone else is “guilty” of the crime of being conservative, since being conservative is not a crime. What people take offence at, in you and other conservatives, is the way in which you misrepresent, attack, sneer at, and deride anything with which you do not agree, then claim others are attacking you when they defend themselves from these things. What is interesting is that no-one has been at all cryptic about this. It has been pretty clear what it… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

Margaret, why are you even here?

Kennedy
Guest
Kennedy

Margaret, why are you even here?

Because she is a child of Christ and a seeker after truth..

like all of us.

Kennedy

Margaret
Guest
Margaret

Choirboyfromhell Because I like to think about my faith — and I am from a liberal background and this site says it is for people who Think, who are interested in the Anglican issue, and who a are liberal. Are you suggesting I should not be on the site? Ford — I put it that way and (you left this out) indicated the surprise at the label, because it seemed a light-hearted way of indicating how I seemed to be perceived on this site and also how surprised I am at both that perception and the participants aggressive reactions towards… Read more »

choiorboyfromhell
Guest
choiorboyfromhell

Mocking my (and many other’s) faith with an opening statement about a deposed bishop and the leadership of TEC is certainly not acting as a seeking child of God. It is shaming, scolding, scorning and insulting. It is anything but thinking about one’s faith. And it is VERY hurtful.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“I notice Standfirm think the Lambeth is nothing more than a talk-fest with little purpose as well! It does however beg the question of how the Anglican church worldwide does come to any joint position if it is not through Lambeth, the meetings of Primates, the ACC, or the Archbishop. What is the point of these four if they actually have no unifying role?” Once again, there is no “Anglican Church”. There is a Communion of individual, autonomous, national churches with a common background and history. Perhaps the only joint positions the Communion is meant to have are the ones… Read more »

4 May 1535+
Guest
4 May 1535+

Hi, Margaret. First, like many other posters, I, too, should hate for conservativism to become a crime, even if only here at TA. Second, you commented: “It does however beg the question of how the Anglican church worldwide does come to any joint position if it is not through Lambeth, the meetings of Primates, the ACC, or the Archbishop.” The first answer to this, again, must be that *there is no Anglican church worldwide*, period. By any historically conscious definition of Anglicanism, the idea of an _international Anglican church_ is a contradiction in terms, and, indeed, the worldwide spread of… Read more »

Charlotte
Guest
Charlotte

Well, Margaret, if you are neither Episcopalian nor Anglican nor from the US, you are not in a position to know what the facts are. So I withdraw my statement that you are misrepresenting them. But since you do not yet understand what is going on, you might spend a little time trying to acquire some knowledge before you jump into a site like this one and start throwing bombs in all directions. (And the question still remains as to why you are so all-consumingly focused on denouncing the evil done by the Episcopal Church in America in deposing the… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest

Margaret: “Pat – You are in good company. I notice Standfirm think the Lambeth is nothing more than a talk-fest with little purpose as well!” You clearly don’t understand Pat’s position at all. The “conservatives” think that Lambeth is of little value because Lambeth declines to be the lynch mob they want. Pat did not say (nor do most liberals say) that Lambeth is “nothing more than a talk fest with little purpose.” What we DO say is that Lambeth is not an Anglican Court. Some closed minded bishops tried, at the very first Lambeth Conference, to turn it into… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Margaret wrote: “I notice Standfirm think the Lambeth is nothing more than a talk-fest with little purpose as well!” Tea & Cakes (from 1868). You k n o w this Margaret. Why are you trying to be a nuisance? Some new American decease?? Margaret wrote: “It does however beg the question of how the Anglican church worldwide does come to any joint position if it is not through Lambeth, the meetings of Primates, the ACC, or the Archbishop.” It is n o t “a church”, so it doesn’t, really. Not a word on China’s crimes against humanity, in Tibet and… Read more »

Margaret
Guest
Margaret

With respect to all the comments on my last comment:
Your replies have done nothing to allay my fears ie

My problem with that [your position on Lambeth etc] is that position means that Akinola’s version [of Anglicanism] is as legitimate as anyone else’s.

And from what you say that is still a problem. And I find that fact deeply disturbing because I would like Akinola’s version to be under the same scrutiny as the TEC’s one. For my part I think BOTH have to demonstrate their legitimacy.

But how since there is no way to do it?

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“My problem with that [your position on Lambeth etc] is that position means that Akinola’s version [of Anglicanism] is as legitimate as anyone else’s.

And from what you say that is still a problem. And I find that fact deeply disturbing because I would like Akinola’s version to be under the same scrutiny as the TEC’s one. For my part I think BOTH have to demonstrate their legitimacy.

But how since there is no way to do it?”

But there IS a way to do it. Let the various churches decide for themselves. In time, one or the other will prevail.

Malcolm+
Guest

Scrutiny comes when people who don’t agree engage with each other.

From their behaviour, the Episcopal Church is prepared to be scrutinized. They are prepared to meet with those who disagree with them.

It is the “conservatives” who refuse to be scrutinized, who will only meet if the room is purged of the impure.