THINKING ANGLICANS

General Synod: Friday morning

The Church of England’s General Synod will meet in York from this afternoon until Tuesday lunchtime.

Bill Bowder in the Church Times Tension mounts as women-bishop vote approaches

George Pitcher and Rev Dr Peter Mullen in the Telegraph Should women become Church of England bishops?

Robert Pigott at the BBC Church’s division lines drawn up

George Pitcher in the Telegraph Church of England campaign to target young priests at General Synod

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Ford ElmsD.J.BrecknellNom de PlumeTobias HallerJCF Recent comment authors
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Fr Mark
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Fr Mark

So, George Pitcher says, the Church of England is to try to attract more young people to become priests. Do we think that saying “Of course, if you’re a woman, or gay, or even gay-friendly, then don’t think we’re ever going to treat you equally” is having a good effect on our image with young people? If we want to attract people, perhaps first we need to stop making ourselves well-known for who we don’t like and won’t welcome. When are we going to get some joined-up thinking from the C of E authorities? Giving out the constant message that… Read more »

Nom de Plume
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Nom de Plume

Q: Should the CofE ordain women as bishops? A: Yes, but not at any cost. The thing that the CofE needs to recognize is that the 1993 Act of Synod creating the Provincial Episcopal Visitors, commonly known as the Flying Bishop scheme, introduced a serious ecclesiological innovation into the life and legislation of the Church. This innovation, which fundamentally undermines the integrity of dioceses and provinces, and makes a mockery of Catholic episcopal order, was introduced without due regard to the law of unintended consequences, and without any consultation with the wider Anglican Communion, which has been suffering those unintended… Read more »

poppy tupper
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poppy tupper

I am grateful to Christopher Hitchens for a quote in a recent article. He mentions that Abraham Lincoln said, ‘If slavery is not wrong, then nothing is wrong’. Well, if denying full recognition of women in the Church is not wrong, then nothing is wrong. The Southern States expected to be able to go their separate way to keep their slaves. Lincoln was deeply unpopular at he time for refusing to accept this, and, of course, it resulted in a terrible war. But he was right. Sometimes, it’s worth being unpopular and worth a fight. This is one of those… Read more »

Pluralist
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It’s a bit like going to the scene of a multiple pile up on both carriageways and saying, “Were recruiting for drivers.”

David Green
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The Episcopal Church U.S.A. and The Anglican Church of Canada are always on call for people who Get their Act Together!! …and those who would rather follow the hearse.

drdanfee
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drdanfee

I guess I have lived too far into fairness and equality – worked with too many women on too many highly effective professional teams? – known way too many very competent and caring women in social life? – to have much real interest in these claims that something special attends sex and gender which prohibits discerning the gifts of either men or women who might be called to ministry, even to being bishop. If the CoE simply cannot bring itself to step forward into a modern understanding – to live out what it says it honestly discerns as true of… Read more »

Hugh of Lincoln
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Hugh of Lincoln

On the surface, it’s ingenious marketing:

http://www.callwaiting.org.uk/

But “diversity” is made explicit by grown-up organisations enticing young talent: Stonewall’s star logo is a badge of pride used by companies committed to equality and recognised as such. Many organisations are actively seeking to recruit gay people, not just in order to comply with legislation, but to attract the brightest and best.

Given the choice, it seems unlikely that very many young gay people would want to follow a calling into ministry with the current level of corporate hostility, absent elsewhere. And that’s the Church’s loss.

Ann Marie
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I find it amazing that there is so much opposition to the ordination of females. I realized this morning (I probably read it somewhere a while ago and it has just now sunk now) that the defining event of Christianity – the Incarnation is a feminine event – embodiment and relational – as opposed to a masculine one – intellectual etc. So yes, Jesus was male but God chose a feminine mode with which to enter into creation’s history. I would say that is a case for both/and rather than male only. Personally I have lost patience with those who… Read more »

Alan Harrison
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Alan Harrison

Nom de Plume, can you please explain just what you mean by “I will allow that the motive behind the Act of Synod was positive and pastoral – an attempt to reach out to those who were distressed by the introduction of ordination of women priests”?

I am an opponent of the ordination of women. I am not in the least “distressed” by the innovation. Why do you assume that I am? In what way do you imagine the Act of Synod to “reach out” to me?

choirboyfromhell
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choirboyfromhell

Fr. Mark is absolutely correct. You only have to look across the Channel to see the results of church stuck in the past (and whose property is owned by the local governmental authorities!). You’ll have young people, that will come to see the architecture, and gawp at the handful of oldsters fumbling around in what has certainly become a museum and curiosity.

JCF
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JCF

“Should women become Church of England bishops?”

The relevant question is, “Is God calling women to become Church of England bishops?”

And IMO, it’s beyond debate that the answer is *emphatically* YES!!!

Tobias Haller
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It used to be, in Anglo-Catholic circles, that of those things the Articles refer to as “those commonly called Sacraments” (but which ACs just called “Sacraments”), it was said, “All may, none must, some should.” It appears that the “all” didn’t quite sink in, or was perhaps, not even intended as such.

Nom de Plume
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Nom de Plume

Alan Harrison asks why I assume he is distressed about women clergy, when he is merely opposed to them and not distressed about them. I don’t think I said, and certainly didn’t mean to imply, that everyone who says he is opposed to women’s ordination was necessarily so opposed that he was distressed by the prospect. But… The original Measure that allowed for ordination of women created two options for parishes that chose to discriminate against women clergy – the famous Resolutions A and B. One allows the parish to state that they will allow women to function in their… Read more »

D.J.Brecknell
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D.J.Brecknell

Why can’t women be priests or bishops? I don’t know : only that, however wise and wonderful their ministry has been in the past they have not been ordained, and secondly, that the Incarnation took place at a particular time and place in the past, and not now! The argument “If Jesus were here today he would….” is irrelevant : in faith we presume that God knew what he was doing! God – of course – is not bound by the Sacraments, and even “invalid” sacraments bring grace to their recipients. We are so bound. Lastly, the rule used to… Read more »

Ford Elms
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Ford Elms

“in faith we presume that God knew what he was doing!” But this presumes that not ordaining women is what God wants. We are discerning the will of God as we go. For those of us for whom Scripture is not the final authority, this is not an issue. We have been led many times to perceive the will of God as contradicting Scripture. Can we say that 2000 years of not ordaining women represents the will of God, or merely our human inability to discern his will, prehaps as a result of our own political entanglements, fears, and even… Read more »