THINKING ANGLICANS

Church 'out of touch'…

The Times reports today on a new survey of public attitudes in Britain to homosexuality.

See Church ‘out of touch’ as public supports equal rights for homosexuals.

And also Sizeable minority remains hostile to same-sex relationships.

A PDF file containing some of the survey statistics is here.

Update
Ruth Gledhill comments on this in Church ‘out of touch’ on gays, says Times poll.

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Spirit of Vatican IIchoirboyfromhellMartin ReynoldsFather Ron SmithMerseymike Recent comment authors
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Ian Paul
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Ian Paul

This highlights the real question behind all these discussion: what is the source of the church’s authority in matters of ethics and doctrine?

toby forward
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The Church? Out of touch? Get outta here!

choirboyfromhell
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choirboyfromhell

Y’a think???????

Joan_of_Quark
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I find it odd that this is reported even in “faith” sections of the media as the church (or a dominant party within it) being “out of touch”. I couldn’t care less if the church is out of touch, what matters is that it’s *wrong*.

Марко Фризия (Mark Friesland)
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As a gay man, I am impatient with the Church sometimes. But the Church does get many other things right (concerns about poverty, war, racism, violence, etc.).

Charlotte
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Charlotte

“Wouldn’t it be so Christ-like, brave, to say for example: ‘If the state sanctions civil partnerships, we are going to bless these ceremonies, and for those of us who doubt the wisdom of that, we will let God be the judge.’ Didn’t Christ make it his mission to stand up for the weak and dispossessed?” I can’t believe I’m reading those words in a Ruth Gledhill column. Really, words fail me. The AC of Canada and TEC have been tormented almost to death for years because some among us have taken that position. The Church of England responded with cold… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“Women are significantly more tolerant than men; Liberal Democrat and Labour voters than Tories; and under-35s as opposed to over-55s; and especially over-65s. All but the latter agree that gay couples should have the same rights as others”. – Peter Riddell. Times on Line – Not too surprising, this: that women should be more understanding of the need for tolerance on the issue of gender and sexuality. These are two significant areas where the Church, too, needs to catch up with the world. Women, by virtue of their historic battle for equal recognition of their worth in society, would naturally… Read more »

Leonardo Ricardo
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I really hope that the good Canons that guard the ABC don´t share this NEWS with him (the same ones that have black electrical tape covering the outside of the peephole of his office door.

BillyD
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From the Times article:

“Overall, 68 per cent of the public back “full equal rights” for gay men and lesbians, suggesting that the Church, the final bastion of formal discrimination, is out of touch with public opinion.”

I’m an out gay man, but this is a terrible argument for change. So what if the Church is “out of touch with public opinion”? The question shouldn’t be if the Church’s position is consonant with the latest polls, but whether it is consonant with morality and the Gospel. Public opinion does not – or should not, perhaps – dictate morality.

Rev L Roberts
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Rev L Roberts

Permit me to second this.

As a gay man, I am impatient with the Church sometimes. But the Church does get many other things right (concerns about poverty, war, racism, violence, etc.).

Posted by: Марко Фризия (Mark Friesland) on Saturday

JCF
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JCF

And in other news, a cloudless sky is reported as “blue”. ;-/

As all LGBTs have demostrated the *normalcy* of their lives and relationships, Christian same-sex couples have demonstrated the *sanctity* of their unions.

Time for the Church to learn, as Peter Gabriel put it so beautifully (re the struggle for justice in apartheid S Africa): “You can blow out a candle, but you can’t blow out a fire”. Fire: the Holy Spirit has made Her choice. Will the Church follow, or huff-n-puff in futile opposition?

Dallas Bob
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Dallas Bob

Its time for the Church to lead society instead of looking foolish following hopelessly behind. The Church has too often been behind society in calling for civil rights. Now is the time to get out in front. Thank God the Episcopal Church is doing so, while paying a high price. But one day TEC will not have to say we were on the wrong side of history. What excuse will other Churches use as they try to explain their Bull Connor like prejudice to a younger generation?

Gerry Lynch
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Gerry Lynch

It’s hard now to think that one of the main reasons why Tony Higton and his allies seized on the gay issue as a proxy for scriptural literalism back in the 1980s was the fact that conventional society held homosexuality to be icky (and liberal and Catholic opinion in the Church of England had a huge gay subculture). This was back in the days of Section 28, the rows over Jenny Lives With Eric and Martin, etc. Now rather than ickiness towards homosexuality being an advantage for those seeking to use it as a pretext to bash people who disagree… Read more »

jnwall
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jnwall

The level of nastiness and vituperation in the messages responding to Ruth Gledhill’s column is truly appalling. I suggest people who are grateful to her for her comments leaven the lump of nastiness by leaving positive comments for her.

Merseymike
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Merseymike

Ruth Gledhill has undoubtedly shifted on this issue and I think we should be pleased, not critical. People really can change their mind!

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

re Ruth Gledhill; It is refreshing to hear that Ruth is open to the possibility that homosexual people might have been created in the image and likeness of God, and capable of faithful witness to the movement of the Holy Spirit in their lives. It only takes a respectful attitude towards those ‘gays’ who happen to believe that they share the ‘inheritance of the faith’ with all people who are committed to Christ and one another in the Church. “By their fruits ye shall know them” is as true today as it ever was, and even hardened journalists are not… Read more »

Martin Reynolds
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Martin Reynolds

Yes Mike, Ruth has stood up with the angels!

Change is a Christians stock in trade, I am always amazed by those who seem so shocked by it!

I was once viciously against women being ordained priests – I changed, and managed the PR for the movement here in Wales. But old prejudices die hard and I still find a woman at the altar a little uncomfortable just as I quake at taking my pants off for my female doctor …….. I can’t say I understand prejudice – but I have felt it and still sense it in me .

choirboyfromhell
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choirboyfromhell

Martin, we all have prejudices, what separates us from the others is being able to identify them and overcome this impulsive behavior and know it for what it really is…fear.

Good for you in your ‘recovery’!

Spirit of Vatican II
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Spirit of Vatican II

It is annoying that she cannot state Benedict XVI’s teaching accurately. He did not say ‘in the past’ that ‘homosexality [sic] is an ‘intrinsic moral evil’; the official teaching would say (in the present, not the past) that this description applies to homosexual ACTS. Homosexual orientation (as oriented toward such acts) is claimed to be objectively disordered. Only this latter idea is an original Ratzinger contribution.

Spirit of Vatican II
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Spirit of Vatican II

‘the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder’ — Ratzinger, CDF, Homosexualitatis Problema 1986.