Thinking Anglicans

Marriage equality soon?

In England, James Kirkup reported in the Telegraph that ‘Gay couples will get equal right to marry’.

Simon Hughes, the Lib Dem deputy leader, said that the Government will allow same-sex couples to have “civil marriage” with same legal status as marriage between a man and a woman.

His comments follow moves by a Lib Dem minister to allow homosexual couples to have religious elements to their civil partnership ceremonies.

Under current rules, same-sex couples can contract a civil partnership, which is recognised in law but not given the same status as marriage for a heterosexual couple.

Mr Hughes predicted that before the next general election, the law will be changed to give an equal right to full marriage…

In Scotland, Rebecca McQuillan in the Glasgow Herald reported on a Fresh call for gay marriages to be legalised

It might be marriage in all but name – but now campaigners want to end that final inequality in gay partnerships.

Senior churchmen and a cross-party coalition of MSPs are demanding a change in the law in Scotland to give same-sex couples full marriage rights.

Polling evidence suggests a majority of Scots would back the move…

And there was also a leader article, Same-sex couples should be afforded equality of treatment.

The following day the same reporter wrote of Roman Catholic reaction, Bishop on same-sex marriage: not now, not ever…

The Catholic Church will never celebrate same-sex unions – “not now, not in the future, not ever” – even if the law changes to allow religious celebrants to conduct gay marriages, the Bishop of Paisley, Philip Tartaglia, has told the Prime Minister…

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Rosemary Hannah
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Rosemary Hannah

I am proud that the Provost of the church I attend is quoted in this article – I find it heart warming to know I am part of a lively congregation supporting such moves.

Pantycelyn
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Pantycelyn

Excellent news ! Life gets more and more catholic now, ever and on into the Future.

Just reading Gilead– well worth it and bang up to date and — yes on into the future

Chris Smith
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Chris Smith

Such hypocrisy and ignorance that a Catholic bishop would state such an opinion: “Not now and not ever” is just the tip of the dysfunctional iceberg that is the Latin Rite Church and many fundamentalist and reactionary Christian churches. This is why they have lost not only their authority but also their respect from the average human being who is tired of such hypocrisy and backward thinking. Same sex marriage will soon be recognized by most Christian churches but the Latin Rite Church will be the last to treat gay people and women with such respect and equality. They do… Read more »

Dennis
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Dennis

No problem with the bishop announcing that they don’t want to celebrate them. As long as they don’t try to stop others who do wish to do so. That’s how modern democracies work.

JCF
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JCF

“The [Roman] Catholic Church will never celebrate same-sex unions – “not now, not in the future, not ever”: Bishop of Paisley, Philip Tartaglia”

Americans (U.S.) will be reminded of the (late) Governor of Alabama, George Wallace: “Segregation now, Segregation tomorrow, Segregation forever!”

…but he was WRONG and (just as important) *changed his mind*.

I have faith in the Holy Spirit working similar miracles (in God’s Time!) . . . even in the RCC! 🙂

Old Father William
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Old Father William

I must say it again. While I am proud of the progress which has been made by TEC, I am saddened by the fact that it is situated in a country which is so unenlightened. When will we in the USA catch up with Western Europe (and also much of Latin America)?

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

But Governor Wallace didn’t have the promises to Peter of indefectibility and racism is founded on the evil of a fallen humanity.

Perry Butler
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Perry Butler

I’m sure your new found allegiance affords you great comfort Robert, but a substantial part of Christendom doesnt accept the parallelism Peter-pope for all sorts of reasons, theological and historical…and never will. To be frank it is becoming something of a problem for a lot of Roman Catholics

Fr Mark
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Fr Mark

RIW: “racism is founded on the evil of a fallen humanity”…. whereas the historic persecution of society’s gay minority wasn’t, then?

Remember that Britain was executing people merely on account of their homosexuality until the 19th c, and imprisoning them thereafter, up until our own lifetimes. Was that not part of the evil of a fallen humanity?

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

I would agree that the temporal punishment placed on active homosexuals was appalling. However Britain was executing sheep stealers and deporting to Australia for trivial offences as well etc. look at the dreadful punishment Oscar Wilde received, but he did become a Catholic on his death bed.

Fr Mark
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Fr Mark

RIW: “look at the dreadful punishment Oscar Wilde received, but he did become a Catholic on his death bed”

Oh that’s alright, then.

JCF
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JCF

While I need hardly add anything, RIW, I would point out that then-Gov. Wallace and countless others—who we NOW all see as *racists*—had their religious justifications for their positions, too.

I know you (and I, for that matter) care nothing for being on “the wrong side of history”, but the time is SOON coming, when the RCC’s homophobia will be seen by everyone (illumined by the Holy Spirit) as being on the WRONG side of Christ’s Gospel.

If I preach repentence, it’s only to minimize the shame that’s coming (but please pray also for me, a sinner).

Chris Smith
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Chris Smith

Yes, the Petrine “ministry” is a very explosive issue in contemporary Catholicism. It is coming under more scrutiny than ever as a result of two reactionary Popes (John Paul II and Benedict) who have made it their life’s cause to “restore” Catholicism to the pre-Vatican II era. It’s not going to work nor is it going to happen. The treatment of women and the glbt community by Ratzinger and his minions will bite them in the end. Their views on same sex marriage as well as the ordination of women to the priesthood and episcopacy, along with optional celibacy for… Read more »

drdanfee
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drdanfee

The latest news has two double-thick chocolatey layers of sheer yummy goodness potential. Firstly, faith communities who wish to celebrate equal marriage are free to do so, without interference from meddling state powers. This must be vitamin good over the long run for the committed queer couples involved, and for all their friend and family who are also involved in their lives. Secondly, as this happens, we get a free public test in full view of the entirely horrid and dire claims that the Roman Catholic hierarchy is currently publishing far and wide – rather in keeping with the horrid… Read more »

Kevin Montgomery
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Kevin Montgomery

Just as I’m reminded of George Wallace’s 1963 “segregation forever” inaugural address (I was born in Alabama, btw), I’m also reminded of Martin Luther King’s 1965 speech in front of the Alabama State Capitol in which he said, “segregation is on its death bed in Alabama, and the only thing uncertain about it is how costly Wallace and the segregationists will make the funeral.” I wonder how costly the Roman Catholic Church and the Fundagelical Talibanglicans (read: Nigeria, Uganda, and their accomplices in the US, UK, and elsewhere) will make the funeral of homophobia.

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

The Catholic Church is against homophobia and unjust discrimination against homosexuals, but her Divine mandate precludes compromise in areas that are revealed truth. I feel really sorry for Chris Smith, and his flawed analysis.The truth of the matter lies in the Petrine texts, which are to me greater proofs of Christ than the resurrection. Unless the Lord builds the house those that labour do so in vain. As an aside the sad fact of segregation still haunts America in a more subtle way. the blatant signs have gone but there is still plenty of segregation. Sunday is the most segregated… Read more »

Rod Gillis
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Rod Gillis

Re. RIW “The truth of the matter lies in the Petrine texts, which are to me greater proofs of Christ than the resurrection.” Even the most orthodox Roman Catholic would grimace at this kind of confusion. Review the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the section on Article 5, Paragraph 2 (He Rose from the dead) Section III (The meaning and Saving Significance of the Resurrection) paragraphs 651 through 658. Also, note the view of Karl Rahner “According to the New Testament understanding of the resurrection of Jesus, his resurrection is distinguished from ours by the fact that by his resurrection… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

RIW:

Are you suggesting that the revelation of truth is over? That the Spirit stopped revealing its truth to the world when the canonical Bible (at least as the RC church views it) was edited and constructed?

JCF
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JCF

“The truth of the matter lies in the Petrine texts, which are to me greater proofs of Christ than the resurrection.”

Wow. Speechless.

Malcolm+
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RIW: “the Petrine texts, which are to me greater proofs of Christ than the resurrection”

I am gobsmacked.

Reallly, Robert? The papacy is a more important prrof of Christ than his resurrection? The pretensions of the Bishop of Rome outweight the defeat of death?

No wonder Rome is in such a mess.

Chris Smith
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Chris Smith

If the Catholic Church is truly against homophobia and unjust discrimination against homosexuals they have done just about everything to prove otherwise. Robert Ian Williams comments in this thread about “her Divine mandate” ring truly hollow and superficial. Let’s get real here, Mr. Williams. Spare me your false sorrow and condemnation of my “flawed analysis”. It’s about as honest and sincere as the myth of the various theories about the so called “Petrine Ministry”, which to many Vatican II scholars can represent a variety of interpretations. Perhaps a symbol of “unity” but the so called “unity” theory has also been… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
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Robert Ian Williams

Chris, I feel you have hi-jacked Vatican Two. I believe that I am in continuity with that Council.
Vatican two affirms the magisterium unequivocally, and is in perfect conformity will all other Church Councils. I feel it is you that is living the fantasy, if you feel the Catholic Church is going to evolve into the Episcopal Church. How disappointed and frustrated you are going to be.

Simon Sarmiento
Guest

Please, let’s focus on the issue of “marriage equality” and not on RCC internal disputes.