THINKING ANGLICANS

Five bishops and FinF issue statements

Forward in Faith has published the following two statements:

Statement from five bishops
Nov 8, 2010

LIKE MANY in the catholic tradition of Anglicanism, we have followed the dialogue between Anglicans and Catholics, the ARCIC process, with prayer and longing. We have been dismayed, over the last thirty years, to see Anglicans and Catholics move further apart on some of the issues of the day, and particularly we have been distressed by developments in Faith and Order in Anglicanism which we believe to be incompatible with the historic vocation of Anglicanism and the tradition of the Church for nearly two thousand years.

The Apostolic Constitution, Anglicanorum cœtibus, given in Rome on 4th November 2009, was a response to Anglicans seeking unity with the Holy See. With the Ordinariates, canonical structures are being established through which we will bring our own experience of Christian discipleship into full communion with the Catholic Church throughout the world and throughout the ages. This is both a generous response to various approaches to the Holy See for help and a bold, new ecumenical instrument in the search for the unity of Christians, the unity for which Christ himself prayed before his Passion and Death. It is a unity, we believe, which is possible only in eucharistic communion with the successor of St Peter.

As bishops, we have even-handedly cared for those who have shared our understanding and those who have taken a different view. We have now reached the point, however, where we must formally declare our position and invite others who share it to join us on our journey. We shall be ceasing, therefore, from public episcopal ministry forthwith, resigning from our pastoral responsibilities in the Church of England with effect from 31st December 2010, and seeking to join an Ordinariate once one is created.

We remain very grateful for all that the Church of England has meant for us and given to us all these years and we hope to maintain close and warm relationships, praying and working together for the coming of God’s Kingdom.

We are deeply appreciative of the support we have received at this difficult time from a whole variety of people: archbishops and bishops, clergy and laity, Anglican and Catholics, those who agree with our views and those who passionately disagree, those who have encouraged us in this step and those who have urged us not to take this step.

The Right Revd Andrew Burnham
The Right Revd Keith Newton
The Right Revd John Broadhurst
The Right Revd Edwin Barnes
The Right Revd David Silk

A Statement from Forward in Faith
Nov 8, 2010

Forward in Faith assures the five bishops who have announced their desire to enter the Ordinariate when it is created of the love, prayers and support of all its members and of our grateful thanks to them all for their ministries to us..

We likewise assure the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of London of our prayers, as they seek to discern how the sees of Ebbsfleet, Richborough and Fulham are to be filled.

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Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

Oh no, ++Rowan isn’t going to replace them is he? Surely it would be better to see how things work out over the next few months? Pastoral provision has already been made for those who previously looked to the flying bishops. Why the haste?

Spirit of Vatican II
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Spirit of Vatican II

Is it not possible that the issues on which Rome and Anglicanism have moved apart in recent decades are the very issues on which the Vatican and the bulk of the Roman Catholic faithful have also moved apart? If the five bishops think to secure their ideological convictions by submitting to papal authority, they may be disappointed to find that the same disputes are just as rife across the Tiber.

Benedict
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Benedict

FAO Richard Ashby. Why shouldn’t the Bishops of Ebsfleet and Richborough be replaced? There has been no final and decisive vote with regard to the ordination of women to the epsicopate, and the recent vote against the Archbishops’ proposals was hardly overwhelming, so the status quo ought to prevail until such a time as the final decision has been made.

Fr John
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Fr John

simply agree with Richard Ashby. Let the waters settle, and see if these sees are needed after a fairly long period of time.

Fr John

James Mather
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James Mather

No haste, just “due course” (i.e. the normal sort of timetable for episcopal vacancies).

Although some Diocesans and Dioceses are already behaving as if they don’t exist (and in fact have done for years) until such time as they MAY be discontinued, the Sees of Ebbsfleet and Richborough do exist, and the due legal processes in the event of a vacancy must be followed.

Bishop Alan Wilson
Guest

I believe that the first stage in the filling of a suffragan see is a review of the requirement for it to be filled. Given the timing and circumstances this needs to be done very carefully. Presumably if all the five bishops’ FiF colleasgues followed their advice, there wouldn’t be anyone left needing a flying bishop anyway; but that is unlikely to be the case. What common sense would imply is necessary would be a careful review of the real needs and aspirations of those FiF people who decide not to join the ordinariate, to make sure they are served… Read more »

Clive
Guest
Clive

Until the women bishops legislation passes, repealing the Act of Synod, surely ABC has no option but to replace the PEVs. Or is strict adherence to and use of canons, law, etc. To pursue an agenda only allowed for liberals?

William Tighe
Guest
William Tighe

“Oh no, ++Rowan isn’t going to replace them is he?” Not to replace them would be as clear an indication as possible that the AbC intends to provide no more than “terminal care” — which is at least better than the seeming majority view of commenters on this site that they should be euthanatized as soon as possible — for them, or those of their views that cannot or will not follow them. Indeed, though, if terminal care is what he intends he should appoint elderly establishment replacements for both men, who will offer their charges soothing words, but do… Read more »

Joe
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Joe

This is, with little doubt, the right thing for them to do — though I am unsure why they didn’t do this years ago. If they had long believed in papal infallibility and the universal immediate jurisdiction of the pope, then they should not in good conscience have remained Anglicans all these years, never mind remained as bishops. Perhaps they have recently changed their minds, but I fail to understand how Anglicanorum cœtibus could have changed anyone’s mind about papal infallibility and universal jurisdiction. I share their dreams of a future re-united church, and I can even understand how an… Read more »

Maggie
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Maggie

Interesting statement from the Bishop of London about arrangements after the departure of Bishop of Fulham:

http://www.london.anglican.org/NewsShow_13911

He appears to be backing a ‘Society’

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Spirit “If the five bishops think to secure their ideological convictions by submitting to papal authority, they may be disappointed to find that the same disputes are just as rife across the Tiber.” The dominant opinion on FiF-affiliated blogs is that the Catholic church has through its many pronouncements by the Magisterium and past popes placed itself in a position on women priests that could never be overturned even if a future pope should wish to do so. They get very exasperated with you if you suggest that there may be women priests in the RC church at some point… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
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Cynthia Gilliatt

If these flying dioceses must have bishoops appointed to them, then I hope the ABC dawdles along for a long time before doing so. This would give the unwinged ones a chance to come back if they find the Tiber too daunting. [one of TEC’s did the reverse swim back from a brief sojourn in Rome.]

William Tighe
Guest
William Tighe

“[one of TEC’s did the reverse swim back from a brief sojourn in Rome.]” If you are thinking of Clarence Pope (quondam Bishop of Fort Worth), poor man, then he actually became Catholic three times, and returned to the Episcopal Church three times; but if you are tihnking of Dan Herzog (quondam Bishop of Albany), then it seems he came back because he never abandoned his belief in WO, and when he found that because of his origins as a RC (and he had been a RC seminarian in the 60s) he would never be ordained in the Catholic Church,… Read more »

Richard Ashby
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Richard Ashby

This is what I wrote, no more and no less.

Surely it would be better to see how things work out over the next few months? Pastoral provision has already been made for those who previously looked to the flying bishops. Why the haste?

JCF
Guest
JCF

“We have been dismayed, over the last thirty years, to see Anglicans and Catholics move further apart on some of the issues of the day”

Translation: the Vatican and their pseudo-Anglican fellow-travelers are boldly marching forth into the past together. [The majority of *Catholics* however, both Anglican and Roman, will continue to follow Christ, um, FORWARD, in faith.]

Fr Mark
Guest

Erika: “They get very exasperated with you if you suggest that there may be women priests in the RC church at some point in the future”

…or even in the present…

http://www.romancatholicwomenpriests.org/

Anthony Archer
Guest
Anthony Archer

++Rowan is not bound to replace them, but the procedure (albeit flimsy) for doing so is contained in the Act of Synod and he has already announced that he will put the necessary appointments arrangements in place. The relevant text is: Where a vacancy occurs in the office of provincial episcopal visitor, the archbishop of the province concerned shall, before taking the steps referred to in section 5 above to secure the appointment of an additional suffragan bishop, consult the other episcopal visitor and all other bishops who are directly concerned in his ministry.> In Canterbury there is no other… Read more »

Bill Moorhead
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Bill Moorhead

“With the Ordinariates, canonical structures are being established through which we will bring our own experience of Christian discipleship into full communion with the Catholic Church throughout the world and throughout the ages.”

If you really believe that, folks, then put on your water wings and splash your way across the Tiber. Now. This afternoon. Not December 31.

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

Thanks to William Tighe – yes, I was thinking of the ironically named Pope. Did not realize he had been such a Frequent Swimmer.

David
Guest
David

If the number in stipendiary ministry at parish level needs to be cut because of falling revenues and higher pension obligations, it could well be that a large number of vacated sees will not be filled on grounds of necessary cut cutting. In the current financial climate the church may find it quite useful to lose a swathe of its management and in the process trim back its wage bill. Whilst the Ordinariate may well offer to make provision in the RC church for the disaffected, whether these ex-Anglicans be paid a stipend and provided with accommodation remains to be… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

Is not Bishop David Silk the very same Bishop who was ordained for an Australian Diocese before returning to the U.K. as a fully-fledged Bishop? I guess if this is so, then the journey across the Tiber will be less stressful for him than the flight to Gwondanaland. He didn’t seem too happy in Australia. All this travel must be distressing.

Perry Butler
Guest
Perry Butler

Poor Bishop Herzog…it seems things will be made easier for that other former RC the Bishop of Fulham.

jonathan Jennings
Guest
jonathan Jennings

“If they had long believed in papal infallibility and the universal immediate jurisdiction of the pope, then they should not in good conscience have remained Anglicans all these years, never mind remained as bishops.” This ‘making honest men out of good men’ line is not entirely credible. It’s not what they have or haven’t believed about the Roman Church but about what they believe about the Church of England that is at issue here. I suspect that they have believed that their Anglican priestly orders are directly analogous to Roman ones, being of the same character and having a common… Read more »

Joe
Guest
Joe

Jonathan is missing an important point: even if, as he suggests, they now have grounds to doubt the validity of their orders because of changes in the Anglican understanding of orders (not sure this follows logically, and it seems that Jonathan doesn’t either), this can hardly be the catalyst for changing one’s mind about papal infallibility and universal immediate jurisdiction, which was my chief point. If they had believed in the two latter Vat I dogmas for some time, then it is difficult to see how they could have remained Anglicans until now. As I mention in another post I… Read more »

Richard
Guest
Richard

Fr Ron, what’s the fact that, having served as Archdeacon of Leicester, Bishop Silk was Bishop of Ballarat for nine years before retiring back home got to do with anything?

Father Ron Smith
Guest

“Fr Ron, what’s the fact that, having served as Archdeacon of Leicester, Bishop Silk was Bishop of Ballarat for nine years before retiring back home got to do with anything?” – Richard, on Tuesday – Well, Richard, I wasn’t trying to build a whole theology on the question I asked, or upon any answer. I merely asked if the Bishop David Silk who was fleeing to Rome, was one and the same person who was (I have now been told) Archdeacon of Leicester before being called to be Bishop of Ballarat, and then, having apparently failed to avoid the ministry… Read more »

Richard
Guest
Richard

Fr Ron, I see. “Was David Silk the Bishop of Ballarat?” might not have seemed less … I’m not sure, what, really. It just seemed as if you were trying to make a point.