THINKING ANGLICANS

even more on Episcopal Resignations

Stephen Bates in The Guardian writes about An uneasy welcome for the flying bishops. “Arrivals from the Anglican church may import their factionalism into a Catholic culture they don’t entirely understand.”

The Catholic Group in General Synod has issued this statement today.

Statement from Catholic Group in General Synod
Nov 9, 2010

The Catholic Group in General Synod is sorry to hear of the five bishops’ intention to join the Anglican Ordinariate; we would like to thank them all for their ministry in the Church of England, and to assure them of our prayers and good wishes for their future. Bishops John Broadhurst, Andrew Burnham and David Silk have all been prominent members of the Catholic Group, and we thank them for their leadership of the Group in the past.

The Catholic Group remains determined to do all it can to ensure that the promises made by the Church of England to traditionalists at the time of the passing of legislation to permit the ordination of women to the priesthood are honoured by the General Synod as it now considers draft legislation to permit the consecration of women as bishops; significant amendment of the current draft will be required to enable this to happen.

We are heartened by the news that new appointments will be made for the Bishops of Ebbsfleet, Fulham and Richborough, and assure the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of London of our prayers and good wishes at this time.

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Father Ron SmithMarkBrunsonjuniusLindladyJerry Hannon Recent comment authors
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junius
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junius

‘The Catholic Group remains determined to do all it can to ensure that the promises made by the Church of England to traditionalists at the time of the passing of legislation to permit the ordination of women to the priesthood are honoured by the General Synod as it now considers draft legislation to permit the consecration of women as bishops; significant amendment of the current draft will be required to enable this to happen.’

Please could someone quote for me, giving proper references, the actual words of these promises, as enacted in the legislation? I think we need some clarity here.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

What relationship do such ‘promises’ (as may have been made by the G.S. at the time of the passing of legislation permitting their ordination) have with the fact that it was generally understood that any arrangements – including that of the provision of ‘flying bishops’ – were subject to an ongoing discernment process? This presumably meant that such ‘promises’ were only good until the ongoing discernment process was finished. There have been women clergy in the Church for some time now. How long will the discernment take. For ‘promises’ to be made by any sitting of any Synod which would… Read more »

Benedict
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Benedict

Junius, if you go to the website of Forward in Faith and listen to Bishop Broadhurst’s speech at the Conference this year, the words of those promises are all clearly conveyed and quoted. Maybe that will help you. It seems both Synod and indeed Parliament are suffering from collective amnesia.

Neil
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Neil

PROPOSED to be passed by the General Synod to make provision for the continuing diversity of opinion in the Church of England as to the ordination and ministry of women as priests, and for related matters. Whereas: The Church of England through its synodical processes has given final approval to a Measure to make provision for the ordination of women to the priesthood. The bishop of each diocese continues as the ordinary of his diocese; The General Synod regards it as desirable that (a) all concerned should endeavour to ensure that (i) discernment of the rightness or otherwise of the… Read more »

Graham Ward
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Graham Ward

@ junius – the promises are not included within the legislation. That simply legislates that that women may become priests, and lays down the process by which a parish or cathedral my refuse a woman celebrant (resolution A) or the appointment of a woman as parish priest (resolution B). However, traditionalists point to statements made during the committee stages of the legislation, specifically that Synod representatives explained that the Synod had removed time limits in earlier drafts so that ‘protection for incumbents and in particular parishes, should remain in perpetuity for as long as anyone wanted it.’ Archbishop Carey stated… Read more »

junius
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junius

Thank you for your responses.
It is only Graham who has the correct answer. ‘the promises are not included within the legislation. That simply legislates that that women may become priests, and lays down the process by which a parish or cathedral my refuse a woman celebrant (resolution A) or the appointment of a woman as parish priest (resolution B).’

The rest is fluff.

Laurence Roberts
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Laurence Roberts

oh George ‘Carey promised’ it. I see. Well that settles it.

He said (and says) so many wonderful things.

William Tighe
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William Tighe

“the promises are not included within the legislation”

A response which ought to receive the Stalin Prize for breaking eggs to make omlettes.

Laurence Roberts
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Laurence Roberts

I thought this rather lovely from Andrew Burnham’s site. Splendid prayer and back-ground to it, I think. ‘I am going to end with a prayer. It is from After the Third Collect, a Mowbrays anthology of fifty years ago. That kind of anthology, for that kind of praying – extra prayers at the end of the Prayer Book Office – is part of our Anglican Patrimony. As is the author of this prayer, Lancelot Andrewes, 1555-1626, one of the Caroline Divines and a great favourite of the present pope. The prayer itself, I hope, is not inappropriate: O God, most… Read more »

Simon Kershaw
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Junius suggests that, apart from the legislation ‘The rest is fluff’. Hmmm. No. The rest includes charity, tolerance, broad-mindedness, love towards those who disagree with you. In short, a whole host of Christian virtues. Those who support the ordination of women have a right, perhaps even a duty, to state their belief, their support, their case. They may well consider that others are wrong, wrong, wrong on theological grounds, on social justice grounds, on whatever grounds. They may well want to argue about the way in which accommodation will be made for the minority (remembering that at least in part… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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The fact remains: Can any act of Synod be rendered incapable of being overturned by a successive Synod meeting? Has the Church of England already bowed to the technique of Roman Infallibility? If so, I’m in the worng Church.

Neil
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Neil

Simon K – I like the spirit of your comments, and the vision of the sort of Church we have been in the past, and which (despite the ‘fluff’) it would be a disaster to kill.

Jerry Hannon
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Jerry Hannon

Simon Kershaw reminded us of the original stated intent of Thinking Anglicans, in words which he authored in 2003: “Thinking Anglicans proclaims a tolerant, progressive and compassionate Christian spirituality, in which justice is central to the proclamation of the good news of the kingdom of God. Our spirituality must engage with the world, and be consistent with the scientific and philosophical understanding on which our modern world is based. It must address the changes which science and technology have brought into our lives.” I think, Simon, that you are asking us to rise above the taunts, and misinformation, and distortions,… Read more »

Lindlady
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Lindlady

The “promise” that was made and the different memories of what was said, is, I think, a result of words being used to mean what the hearers (on all sides) wanted them to hear, and perhaps a bit of naievety on both sides of the debate back in 1993. What Carey said when introducing the legislation included the words: “The arrangements the House envisages are designed to ensure that appropriate pastoral episcopal care is provided for those in favour and those opposed to the legislation, without undermining the authority of the diocesan bishop” Anglicans without a strongly developed theology of… Read more »

junius
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junius

Simon, I appreciate your point but the original point was about promises given at the time of the legislation, not about charity. Laurence is right here. The sort of platitudes that were spoken were said out of a misplaced charity. It is, for instance, no kindness to say to slave-owners, ‘we appreciate your feelings of loss at emancipation, and we respect your point of view, so you can keep your slaves’. In the same way, if we believe, as I and many others do, that it is wrong to refuse ordination to women in a Church of England which is… Read more »

MarkBrunson
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What I find spurious is the assertion that, somehow, it is charitable to make little pockets, like cysts, around those whose values no longer reflect the ecclesial society around them, while it is *un*charitable to hold the door open for them to go to a preexisting and wholly-established institution which holds the same values as they. I find it odd that it is charitable to tell a majority, ready to move into a new chapter, that they have to wait and tiptoe and pretend, while it is *un*charitable to tell those – who already have and venerate a separate ecclesial… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
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I found it very liberating, this morning (12 Nov. in New Zealand) to commemorate the life and work of an Anglican priest of profoundly Evangelical provenance in the 18th century Church of England – Charles Simeon. In our Anglo-Catholic setting at St. Michael and all Angels, Christ-church, it was good to remember the saintly life of someone who was a product of Eton and Cambridge, Vicar of Holy Trinity, Cambridge for most of his life and ministry – who had a real love of souls. His preaching was exemplary, and truly ‘evangelical’ – in that it brought people to Christ… Read more »