Thinking Anglicans

Ordinariate roundup

The Bishop of Rochester has issued a pastoral letter on The Ordinariate and related issues.

Update, now available as a PDF from the Rochester site.

The Bishop of Chelmsford and the RC Bishop of Brentwood have jointly issued a letter. See press release, Roman Catholic and Anglican Bishops pledge to continue to work together, and the letter itself is in a PDF file.

The Church Times has a leader: In God’s deep counsels, some better thing. There is a news report at Ordinary time begins for ex-Anglicans at Westminster Cathedral.

The transcript of the press conference given last Monday by Fr Keith Newton can be read here.

Cardinal Walter Kasper gave a speech last Friday. The full text of it is available at His Eminence Walter Cardinal Kasper’s address to the Archbishop.

So I know well, that the day of tomorrow is not an easy one for you. It is not a day of victory for one side, it should be for both a day of penance, that though all good will on both sides till today we were not able to fulfill the will of our Lord as we should. But I want to assure you, the Holy Father, my successor in the Pontifical Council and the Roman Catholic Church as a whole are willing and decided to continue the way of sincere dialogue we started after the Second Vatican Council now more than almost fifty years ago.

24
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
24 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
17 Comment authors
Paul HargreavesLaurence RobertsRobert Ian WilliamsFather Ron SmithJCF Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
Nicholas Kerr
Guest
Nicholas Kerr

At present there’s no sign of +James Roffen:’s Pastoral Letter on the Rochester Website. It may take a week or two.

Ed Tomlinson
Guest

Well lots of nice sentiments finally coming out but not much action. Is it a case of say one thing and do another? Or will they actually allow sharing? So far the signs are that these letters are not really worth the paper they were printed on but I remain open to the possibility of being wrong

badman
Guest
badman

Father Newton’s interview about the new Ordinariate in England and Wales seems rather downbeat. Is he trying to lower expectations? On the number of parish groups: “I’d guess it will be about two dozen groups. Mostly around the South of England in the province of Canterbury; some in the North but not many.” On the number of priests, Father Newton says “probably between fifty and sixty priests. But they’ll not all be stipendiary. Some of them will be retired.” On the size of the congregations: “Some of the groups may be a dozen or twenty, some may be 60 or… Read more »

JCF
Guest
JCF

“Or will they actually allow sharing?”

When the Bishop of Rome shares authority as one bishop among equals, Ed! 😉

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Ed
“Or will they actually allow sharing?”
As in sharing buildings?
I don’t know why this keeps coming up as something to whip the CoE with. It was the Roman Catholics who have made it very clear, after all, that they expect those who join the Ordinariate to go to local RC churches.
With that, I expect the conversation is closed.

Robert Ian williams
Guest
Robert Ian williams

Imagine a Roman Catholic priest leaving to become an Anglican vicar…he would not have any chance of sharing his former building.

Lister Tonge
Guest
Lister Tonge

‘The Archbishop of Westminster has on several occasions made public his view that Ordinariate congregations should worship in Roman Catholic parish churches.’

– from +Roffen.

Does the archbishop’s opinion count for anything, Ed. ?

Father Ron Smith
Guest

“How to realize unity, which is not at all identical with uniformity, a unity without fusion or absorption (John Paul II) so that we become more and more one Church and nevertheless many churches remain (J. Ratzinger)? We know that this touches the problem of primacy, which for both is not an easy one, because it – besides all the theological questions, which arise – is so deeply rooted in consciousness of this country and its history and in our Catholic convictions too.’ – Walter, Cardinal Kasper – Cardinal Kasper, in his eirenic speech to the ABC and others, here… Read more »

William
Guest
William

Ron – Cardinal Kasper’s comments are deeply challenging to all of us. When he speaks of unity without uniformity he is talking about communion -the ultimate goal of the ecumenical movement. Such communion is possible without “fusion or absorption” but this is why he raises the “problem of primacy”. A clear example of what he is talking about is the English Ordinariate. He does not mean that we just carry on as separate churches doing our own thing – we are called to so much more than that.

Antony
Guest
Antony

@Ron Smith

Cardinal Kasper is very much an ex official in the Vatican, and his views are much more those of the 70’s and 80’s than of Benedict XVIth and the “new” Curia. Because of the heretical trends in traditional protestant denominations the ecumenical future is in structures like the Ordinariate rather than ARCIC diplomacy!

Tom Selmes
Guest
Tom Selmes

I think this is the best commentary on the Ordinariate so far:

http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/content.asp?id=106836

Rosalind
Guest
Rosalind

It’s worth reading the “Ad clerum” from Stephen Cottrell alongside the joint letter.
http://www.chelmsford.anglican.org/assets/files/comms/Ad%20Clerum%20regarding%20the%20Ordinariate%20-%205.1.11.pdf

He specifically does not rule out church sharing but sets boundaries for this. Looks similar to the response from Rochester – as other posters have said, it is not the Anglicans who are saying “no” to the principle of church sharing agreements, although the boundaries that are set, for good pastoral reasons, may not be what all those who are thinking of a move to the Ordinariate may have hoped for.

Bill Dilworth
Guest
Bill Dilworth

“I don’t know why this keeps coming up as something to whip the CoE with. It was the Roman Catholics who have made it very clear, after all, that they expect those who join the Ordinariate to go to local RC churches.” Well, the RCs may have said that, but the converting Anglicans evidently had other ideas in mind. You know how they are with taking direction from Church hierarchy… Neither in the US nor the UK has this been completely about the principles involved; some amount, even if it’s under the radar in the UK for the most part,… Read more »

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

Well said Antony….I have just read the Bishop of Rochester’s letter…its a very nice way of saying get lost Ed and co.

I do hope you will leave the Church and the vicarage graciously.

JPM
Guest
JPM

If I quit my job, can I keep my office?

After all, I’ve got everything there arranged just the way I like it, and the view from the window is very nice.

Bill Dilworth
Guest
Bill Dilworth

“Can there be any doubt that this is a movement of the Holy Spirit? “

Quite a bit, as it turns out.

JCF
Guest
JCF

“Because of the heretical trends in traditional protestant denominations the ecumenical future is in structures like the Ordinariate rather than ARCIC diplomacy!”

The Ordinariate may (MAY) have a future, arguably. But whatever it is, Antony, it ain’t ecumenical.

robert ian williams
Guest
robert ian williams

It was Archbishop Vincent Nichols who suggested that there should be no church sharing….he actually has no authority over the Ordinariate. The ordinariate is directly under Rome. Whilst I wish them well..it amazes me that Rome has created an autonomous local church for so few people. I looked at the Ordinariate Portal and I think there will not be that many groups of laity joining. At first they said 50..then it reduced to 34 and now its down to 24. On the Ordinariate portal there are 7 groups listed..apparently there are no takers in Wales. Yet on these claims the… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

“It was Archbishop Vincent Nichols who suggested that there should be no church sharing….he actually has no authority over the Ordinariate. The ordinariate is directly under Rome.” – RIW –

For what it’s worth, Robert, this sort of ‘divided Authority’ is what we are used to in the Anglican Communion. So from you remark, I take it that Rome is not entirely under the thumb of Papa Benny In any event even the Pope of Rome can do absolutely nothing about demanding Anglican churches or other facilities to augment the inner workings of his tame Ordinariates.

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

No our authority is not divided Ron, as both are answerable to the Pope.

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

Much ado about nothing – well little.

I cannot understand the fuss – just do it !
All this breast-beating nonsense about so-called ‘unity’ ! It is just a hankering after control and command. But the RC church can’t even control its own ministers when it comes to abuse and acting out with juveniles and children. Brian Darcy spoke well about this on radio 4 yesterday.

I was delighted the cardinal had the manners and good-taste to refer to his denomination and ‘the Roman Catholic church’ too.

‘heretical trends’ ? Good lord are we living in the middle ages or C17th !

Robert Ian Williams
Guest
Robert Ian Williams

Laurence….How do you micro mangage in a church of 1,300,0000,000 souls and a priesthood of 475,000 persons. You seem to have one obsession in life attacking the Catholic Church. Even I see the good in some Anglicans.

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

I am having a re-think about the Ordinariate.

Thinking that perhaps I have been / am wrong.

Paul Hargreaves
Guest
Paul Hargreaves

If, at a particular church, the majority of a congregation, together with their vicar leave to join the Ordinariate, it is probable that the residue will not make a viable parish. How will they maintain the building and pay the bills?