Civil Partnerships and Marriage: latest views

Damian Thompson asks: Catholic bishops mount ferocious attack on gay weddings. So why don’t they want to talk to the press about it?

The National Secular Society thinks that Church-state confrontation over gay marriage could be solved with disestablishment.

Giles Fraser says I don’t see a threat in gay blessings.

Benny Hazlehurst has written: Towards a Theology of Gay Marriage.

And there was a letter in the Guardian published under the headline Toilets, insects … but not civil partnerships.

16
Leave a Reply

avatar
16 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
8 Comment authors
Father Ron SmithdrdanfeeJohnLaurence RobertsSimon Dawson Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

‘I won’t ever conduct a same-sex blessing until that becomes the policy of the Church of England. That may mean I never will. But we all have the right to argue for change. And change we must.’

The Revd Dr Giles Fraser is Canon Chancellor of St Paul’s Cathedral and Director of the St Paul’s Institute.

A religious liberal of the C of E kind.

Lovely words ..

JCF
Guest
JCF

“As Riazat Butt notes in the Guardian, Archbishop Smith is implicitly condemning not just politicians but *other religions* who solemnise gay partnerships in church, synagogues or wherever.”

This is the key (and not just “condemning”, but trying to use Power-Over to STOP).

Even if he’s just quoting R Butt, I’m glad D Thompson is getting to the heart of the matter.

JCF
Guest
JCF

“Over the past few years, the Church has been making enemies in large parts of society — and not just the gay community — because it has failed to recognise that the love two members of the same sex can have for each other is legitimate or genuine.”

This CANNOT be overestimated.

Same-sex marriage won’t kill the Church(es), but homophobia might.

Randal Oulton
Guest
Randal Oulton

Divorced people are allowed to remarry, but C of E dioceses are not compelled by law to have to do the dirty deed. I don’t see why they feel this would be any different. Honestly, the Church is wrapping itself around a fence pole over the “gay issue”, even though prohibitions against eating shellfish, women going about with uncovered heads and men shaving are mentioned far more. Very bizarre, and it’s getting quite boring, frankly. I think it’s all a cover-up to keep on dodging the biblical encouragement to give away all you have to the poor. No one had… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

” We do not believe it is either necessary or desirable to allow the registration of civil partnerships on religious premises. These will not take place in Catholic churches.” – R.C. Archbishop Peter Smith – The royal ‘WE’ is obviously considered by Abp. Peter Smith to include the whole panoply of the Roman Catholic Church – although he may only be speaking on behalf of the Magisterium. However, that does not entitle him to disenfranchise other religious bodies (e.g. Quakers & Liberal Jews) from the prospect of doing what the government seems to think could happen – that Civil Partnerships… Read more »

Cheryl Va.
Guest

Amen to all those who see the need for reform. The love between two individuals does not preclude love between two other people. The wellbeing of one household does not compromise the wellbeing of another household. Unless, and only unless, the parties of one group make forays against the other. The issue then is the act of aggression and refusal to live well amongst thy neighbours. It is always amusing to hear Christians bemoaning how they are being oppressed and denied civil liberties in some parts of the world. They bemoan that they can not marry opening and honestly in… Read more »

john
Guest
john

Laurence, Are you being sarky? There are lots of C of E priests who conduct such blessings and have done for years. I know some. You must know many more.

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

NB john.

You assume a lot about what and whom I know.

But to be honest, I know nothing of the sort. Should I try to be more vigilant in perusing the Announcements in The Church Times,The Times and the Independent etc.

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

john I don’t know what you mean by ‘bein snarky’- I’m not even sure I should be responind to your anonymous comment really. In future, I shan’t.

But I am sick to the back teeth of the constant betrayals of lesbian and gay people and others by self styled liberals in the denomination.

Rowan Williams par excellence but far from unique.

Great wordsmiths but expect no real action and nothing that will in convenience them.

I think I’m wasting my time…

John
Guest
John

Laurence,

I certainly intended no offence. I wasn’t sure how to read your comment: whether you were commending G Fraser’s words or criticising him for the fact that it was ‘just words’. I think the ‘I’m not going to do it until policy changes, as it should’ line tenable, but when a prominent cleric such as he puts it in print I don’t like it: it seems to me to be toadying to the powers-that-be.

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

OK John, I see. I must assume you are sincere. I still do not know why you imagine I ‘must know many more’ anglican ministers who have conducted or will conduct the Blessing of same-sex couples. I know none; and have never been invited to one in my entire life. They certainly are not done openly like opposite sex solemnization. I am attending a Quaker Wedding -and I do mean Wedding – of 2 women in April. As you seemed in doubt as to my meaning John – I am sickened by liberals in the Church of England who are… Read more »

Simon Dawson
Guest
Simon Dawson

John write “There are lots of C of E priests who conduct such blessings and have done for years. I know some. You must know many more.”

And not always without official authority. When my partner and I asked our rector for a blessing service for our relationship back in 2001 (http://www.simondawson.com/blessing/blessphot.htm) the rector asked the arch-deacon for advice. The arch-deacon asked us not to be seen to “ape” the marriage service, but apart from that one caveat the rector was told that this sort of service was “exactly what the church should be doing”.

Simon Dawson

Laurence Roberts
Guest
Laurence Roberts

Correction *********** I have been contacted by a friend, and reminded that s/he and partner DID invite me to their Blessing. So I must apologize to them and to all here. (I don’t think I had thought of that as being ‘in church’- but ill health prevented me. I think I thought it was on a hill-). My memory is not perfect these days. Maybe there will be a flood of comments here, with good news of happy events under the spiritual care of the anglican church. I am very happy for Simon, too. Is such ministry be offered widely… Read more »

John
Guest
John

Laurence and Simon,

This is all good.

Best,

John.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

So far as drafting a theology of equal marriage goes? Just put Tobias Haller’s book, next to Gray Temple’s book – and there we have very erudite, useful, thoughtful first steps. Published by pastors and scholars in USA, I might add; with various other Anglican provinces including UK dragging their feet and ho-humming and looking sideways with frowning faces at queer folks making ethical commitments of care to their partners and to their children. Just imagine the outlandish scandal of making a commitment to care, what will these horrid queer folks dare to do next that will destroy faith and… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

As others have remarked on this and other threads: the clergy are often asked to ‘Bless’ mere secular objects – like boats, homes, halls, cars and even perambulators; So why on earth would God not want the ‘Bless’ the faithful mongamous relationship of ‘two people who Love one another, and wish to share that love for the rest of their lives” – (from the NZ Marriage Liturgy).