Thinking Anglicans

House of Laity meeting – outcome of the debate

The motion before the House was:

That this House have no confidence in Dr Philip Giddings as Chair of this House.

Immediately before the vote was due to be taken, a motion to pass to next business (and thereby cancel the vote on the main motion) was moved, but overwhelmingly lost.

The main motion was defeated with 47 votes in favour, 80 votes against and 13 recorded.

After the debate Dr Giddings said that he would continue in office, but that there was a need for a debate on the role of the chair of the house.

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JeremyJohn SErika BakerConcerned AnglicanJohn Recent comment authors
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Simon Butler
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Simon Butler

Saved by the snow?

Labarum
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Labarum

Good!

I listened to most of it online.

Mike Thompson
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Mike Thompson

Hurray! Dr Giddings a hero of my week, (as are Nebojsa Vucinic and Vincent de Gaetano, ECHR).
Canon Barney can go fire somewhere else.

Concerned Anglican
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Concerned Anglican

I wonder if the inclement weather had any bearing on the outcome of the vote? London, as usual on occasions such as these, was paralysed by two inches of snow. Would a vote in say June have come out any differently?

Jeremy
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Jeremy

So the House of Laity has confidence in someone who supports discrimination against women?

The way is now clear for the deanery synods to vote no confidence in Synod.

Duncan
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Duncan

This is not a great result for Philip. Just over a third of those voting do not have confidence in him. That margin was enough to block women Bishops, surely it is enough to make him realise that if he continues he will be a focus of division. He should now do the honourable thing and stand down in the interests of Church unity.

Richard
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Richard

Thank God that common sense has prevailed.

What a waste of £30,000.

JCF
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JCF

Ignorant Yank conjecture: shot across the bow, delivered?

David Shepherd
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A significantly higher proportion of those voting against the no confidence motion compared to those who voted for the Measure. One can only assume that many of those who expressed bewilderment and outrage over the latter believed that it is now ‘a time to heal’, rather than exacerbate the situation on principle. Paul’s view of the way forward is the relinquishment of our most extreme positions on either side: whether single clause or further accommodation. Even if I had a well-argued theological case behind my convictions, ungracious censoriousness wouldn’t fare well by the apostle’s standards: ‘The very fact that you… Read more »

Tim Moore
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Tim Moore

So it’s victory for Giddings. Maybe if the No Confidence motion was better-worded, it may have passed….just like the WB motion.

I see no closure or “moving on” in the outcome of the vote. If the failed No Confidence vote represents anything to me, it’s that it reinforces the underlying argument in the debate against Women Bishops: to oppose women bishops is to follow one’s conscience, yet to challenge opponents is to attempt to split the church.

When will this sorry saga come to an end?

John
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John

I agree with Tim that the wording and presentation of the motion may well have had an influence on the outcome. It was argued chiefly on the narrow grounds of the appropriateness of Giddings’ one specific speech in the original debate. Once Giddings had apparently established that the timing of the speech was down to Sentamu, and that Welby did not have any complaint, it seemed to me that a motion argued on those narrow grounds deserved to fail. But there is a bigger argument that didn’t get nearly as much articulation. The WB debate seems, to my observation, to… Read more »

johnny may
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johnny may

I am relatively new to this commenting on websites lark but grateful for the information and discussion I am finding here. In relation to the House of Laity vote I have been reading things like this: “My point is that the November vote, unlike any 2010 vote, has done enormous damage to the CofE’s reputation, moral authority, fundraising, support in the pews, influence in Parliament and with government, etc” and “Unfortunately, the costs of further reputational damage from today’s vote are greater.” “Dr Giddings has the backing of Anglican Mainstream and, I dare say access to funding, so he will… Read more »

ian
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Concerned anglican: no London was not paralysed by 2 inches of snow. Tubes and buses were running more or less normally.

John: “we don’t want any of our key leadership positions occupied by…..” No wonder those in the minority have concerns that their position in the church was under threat.

John
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John

Ian: those in certain minorities should indeed have concerns about their positions, and I believe that as a matter of honesty and integrity we ought to be clearer in saying that. The CofE has decided there is no theological objection to women bishops. The CofE has now, as judged by the leadership of the Bishops and endorsed by the Diocesan Synods, clearly decided the time is right to do it. Since the vote in General Synod, my sense is that the lay members of the church as a whole want it to happen too. So if the minority in question… Read more »

Concerned Anglican
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Concerned Anglican

Ian, you are perfectly correct that London was not paralysed by the recent snow but you miss the point. The perception was and usually is, thanks to the press, that London is a place to avoid whenever it snows. The question consequently arises as to how the vote might had differed had everyone turned up for the meeting? By the way, in London we’ve had another half inch of snow today (Sunday 20th). Heathrow has slashed the number of flights, newscasts are issuing dire warnings for people to stay at home and the roads are uncharacteristically quiet. Much the same… Read more »

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

I’m finding the contributions here interesting. Clearly, there has been a major shift since November and more and more people are now strongly reacting against the evangelical theology of male headship and believe it ought not to be given an honoured place in the CoE.

Does this also extend to the Anglo-Catholic idea of sacramental assurance or is that still an acceptable view to hold in the church?

John S
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John S

Re sacramental assurance: I am definitely not a theologian. but it seems to me that the view that a women is intrinsically incapable of administering valid sacraments is logically just as contrary to beliefs in the equality and inclusivity of God’s love as male headship is. The view that women will not be capable of administering valid sacraments until some combination of Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches thus agree is in principle less objectionable, though this view could just be a front for a more fundamental objection. But I don’t get the impression, in the rather limited church circles I… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy

“So if the minority in question is one that wants to carry on fighting a rearguard action, particularly in the significant subset where the rearguard action is animated by a theology (male headship) most of us find repugnant, then they should have the integrity to understand and we should have the integrity to say to them that their active opposition will progressively have less and less place in the leadership of the church.”

Precisely.