Thinking Anglicans

House of Lords debate Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Updated Tuesday lunchtime

The Hansard report of the first day of debate is now available starting here at 3.10 pm, and continuing at 6.01 pm, after a half hour interruption for other urgent business, over here. The debate adjourned at 10.46 pm. It will resume today at around 3 pm.

A full index of speeches by speaker is here (scroll down).

Links to speeches by bishops and former bishops:

The Archbishop of Canterbury’s own record of his own speech can be found on his own website.

In his speech Hansard says he said that:

…Although the majority of Bishops who voted during the passage of the Civil Partnership Act through your Lordships’ House were in favour of civil partnerships a few years ago, it is also absolutely true that the church has often not served the LGBT communities in the way it should…

Whereas in his own transcript he says that he said:

Although the majority of Bishops who voted during the whole passage of the Civil Partnerships Act through your Lordships’ House were in favour of civil partnerships a few years ago, it is also absolutely true that the church has often not served the LGBT communities in the way it should. [emphasis added]

Update Hansard has been modified, and the word “whole” has been [re-]inserted in the sentence in the official record. Those who have studied the analysis linked below will see why the inclusion of this word is so significant.

TA readers will recall that back in June 2012 we published this detailed analysis of how the bishops spoke and voted on this matter, prepared by Richard Chapman: The Lords Spiritual and Civil Partnerships Legislation.

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LaurenceMartin ReynoldsErika BakerIain McLeanRod Gillis Recent comment authors
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Craig Nelson
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Craig Nelson

Whatever the intrinsic merits all the bishops rubbed me up the wrong way. I really struggle to make sense of Archbishop Welby saying the Church hasn’t supported equality in the past and then going on to say it isn’t going to support equality in the future either – why end a losing streak? Lord Carey seemed a little understated compared to what I was expecting. I was a little amused by the reverence he showed to the lived experience of gay people and his need to listen to that. That’s funny because he maybe should have listened to it as… Read more »

Laurence
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Laurence

Harrries’ speech well worth reading and quite inspiring. It was lovely hearing him deliver it in his own distinctive, dulcet tones.

Few bishops have done more than him for our cause of equality.

As for the others … (those of a timid or squeamish disposition; or strong Christian feeling, may be well advised to give them a miss).

I was interested to see Geo Carey attired like a Baptist minister – and hope the BUGB won’t mind too much!

Martin Reynolds
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Martin Reynolds

I was in the chamber yesterday and will be there again today.

The speech from the Archbishop of Canterbury needs to be heard as well as read. He was powerful in his apology to LGBT people.

He took special care to welcome wholeheartedly the opinion of the Bishop of Salisbury and there was no doubt from his tone or manner that this welcome was sincere. Rowan Williams stuck his head around the door for this speech.

I imagine that we might now see the resignation of Graham Kings?

Martin Reynolds
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Martin Reynolds

I thought Baroness Morgan of Ely was also worth listening to ………..

badman
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badman

Can I recommend Lord Deben’s speech too? It follows the one by Lord Carey. Lord Deben (the former John Selwyn Gummer) is a Roman Catholic convert from Anglicanism who made an intelligent speech dealing with points that have been much canvassed on Thinking Anglicans.

paul richardson
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paul richardson

As a priest serving in Salisbury diocese, I hope that we do not see the resignation of Graham Kings, Bishop of Sherborne. One of the delights of our diocese is a real determination to show that we can live together with our differences as a Church a be a sign of unity and reconciliation.

Iain McLean
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Iain McLean

I agree with Martin that there were good things in the Archbishop’s speech. He rounded on his own crew and told them, as I and others have been urging, not to support the wrecking amendment. He apologised for past CofE treatment of LGBT people. He made it clear that he had authorised the recent letter by the Bishop of Salisbury. +Leicester will not support the wrecking amendment, but +Chester and +Exeter will: Chester on the grounds that “the present proposal would block the way to a far more sweeping reform” (hat tip FM Cornford). The main part of the speech… Read more »

simon Dawson
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simon Dawson

Martin Reynolds wrote – in response to a comments about +Salisbury’s letter – “I imagine that we might now see the resignation of Graham Kings?”

Why on earth should Bishop Graham resign? I have been to lectures by both men at Boscombe church in memory of Richard Hooker, who was rector there whilst composing his Laws.

In the spirit of Hooker’s Anglican “harmonious dissimilitude”, if the two bishops can demonstrate a pattern of working constructively together for the good of the church, whilst disagreeing fundamentally on certain matters of doctrine, then that would be a gift to us all.

Simon

Jeremy Pemberton
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Jeremy Pemberton

So the ABC “tweaks” history once again, by omitting critical words, to make it look like he, his predecessor, and the HoB have been lovely and supportive all along. I’m sorry, Martin, but his apology rings hollow. The best you seem to get is grudging tolerance allied to a polity that keeps LGBT relationships firmly anchored in ‘separate but equal’, which as we all know means ‘different, lesser and not equal’. All wrapped up in saccharine weasel words.

Gosh, I am feeling angry and bitter today. Go on HoB, prove me wrong!

Rod Gillis
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Rod Gillis

On the matter of GLBT and the church, The overtures of the new ABC Welby reminds me of a line from an old “Who” tune, “Meet the new boss,same as the old boss”.

Iain McLean
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Iain McLean

Re lunchtime update: congratulations to all involved in restoring the integrity of the “Hansard” record. One of these days, we might learn what spinmeister thought it was smart to try to alter the record.

Erika Baker
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Erika Baker

I can’t find Lord Deben’s speech in Hansard, can anyone point me to it please?

Martin Reynolds
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Martin Reynolds

So, the two day of committee are going to be very hot now the Dear amendment has been rejected. It’s typical of inclusive spirited commentators here that they still want to embrace the homophobes who lead Fulcrum. Their heartfelt hatred for inclusivity was revealed in a (now removed) comment from Martin Kuhrt, who damned Salisbury diocese to hell and back. My speculation on Graham Kings considering his position in Salisbury was based on his friend and political ally Andrew Goddard’s outburst on the Fulcrum website. It seemed that some sacred concordat had been breached and trust betrayed. But today in… Read more »

Laurence
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Laurence

It appears now that Welby was trying to walk on water !

With limited success.