Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 6 September 2017

Jack Jenkins ThinkProgress Are evangelicals inventing a new kind of Christianity that’s all about sex?

Eliel Cruz The New York Times The Nashville Statement Is an Attack on L.G.B.T. Christians

Jonathan Merritt Religion News Service Take a deep breath. The Nashville Statement won’t change anything

The Victorian Society has expressed its opinion on keeping churches open. There’s nothing on their website, but Olivia Rudgard reports their views in The Telegraph: Victorian Society criticises evangelical group for keeping churches ‘shuttered and barred’

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David RuncornSimon SarmientoTim ChestertonFrDavidHsue Recent comment authors
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JCF
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JCF

I’d not seen the Think Progress article before: excellent overview, w/ context. Thanks.

robert ian williams
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robert ian williams

Evangelicals are inventing one about homosexuality/ transgender..not divorce, contraception or even masturbation..all quietly accepted over the years.

David Keen
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David Keen

If I want Christians discussing sex and not much else then TA is usually my first port of call.

As for the Victorian Society, they sent us a letter through their lawyer objecting to plans to refit the church as a community space. They hadn’t checked the plans, the letter was full of errors, and thankfully we persevered and our refurbished church building is opened up and used far more than it was when it was full of Victorian pews and cracked purple tiles. The idea that they are champions of community use of churches is laughable.

andy gr
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andy gr

To be fair, the Victorian Society were very supportive when we wanted to remove the pews from the Victorian church I serve, move the organ and create new rooms. No objections at any point.

Ian
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Ian

David Keens experience is exactly mine. They oppose moves to make a building more socially useful. There us little evidence they want them actually used rather than museum pieces.

FrDavidH
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FrDavidH

It is not Christians on TA who are obsessed with sex, as David Keen suggests. Evangelicals are totally obsessed with gay sex in particular, and believe it is the most important subject in the Bible.

Tim Chesterton
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‘Evangelicals are totally obsessed with gay sex in particular, and believe it is the most important subject in the Bible’.

That’s a totally outrageous generalization, FrDavidH. David Keen and I are both evangelicals and both bloggers. I think if you will examine our blogs (mine goes back ten years), you will find that both of us have had very little to say about gay sex. In fact, I venture to suggest that if you compare the portion of space on our blogs taken up with sex to that on TA, you will find able evidence to support David’s statement.

peter kettle
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peter kettle

There is an interesting report of attending a Sunday service at St Sepulchre’s at http://ship-of-fools.com/mystery/2017/3208.html

FrDavidH
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FrDavidH

Most of the discussions about sex on TA are in response to the bigotry, prejudice and hatred shown by evangelicals to LGBT people. If this horrible obsession by evangelicals were to cease, so would such discussions on TA. (I accept Messrs Keen and Chesterton are exceptions).

Fr John E Harris-White
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Fr John E Harris-White

Thank you for the observations of the pew observer on a Sunday service at ST Sepulchre’s. My suspiciens were well founded, his view that it was more non conformist than Anglican. The church has historic and living connections not only to the musicians, and their chapel. But also the Royal Fusiliers Regiments, and their colors hung in their chapel. For both reasons this church means much to me. As a lover of classical music, and my families connection to the City of London Royal Fusiliers Regiment. My father Norman Richard fought with his brother in the First World War with… Read more »

Ian H
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Ian H

“Most of the discussions about sex on TA are in response to the bigotry, prejudice and hatred shown by evangelicals to LGBT people”

Make a sweeping statement why don’t you? I visit TA occasionally…it always sounds like a shrill echo chamber. So many contributions use anything to tar evangelicals or charismatics. Its quite disturbing rather than merely sad.

JCF
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JCF

“Most of the discussions about sex on TA are in response to the bigotry, prejudice and hatred shown by evangelicals to LGBT people”

It boggles my mind that this observation could be seen as “sweeping” “shrill” or even controversial. Are all Evangelicals bigoted? No. FrDavidH allows as much (so do I). Are all anti-LGBT bigots Evangelical? Not true either (sadly, there are still too many Anglo-Catholics in that camp, also).

But the observation remains what it is: a straight-forward FACT. Those who don’t like this fact, should work harder on changing it—not “shooting the messenger”!

sue
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sue

I think a certain strand in Christianity has always been obsessed with controlling sex.I attended a Christian youth group in my teens and there were several “sex ed” classes a year. Boys and girls were separated, girls harangued about the importance of virginity and the boys one was apparently all about the evils of masturbation. Strangely there was nothing in the boys class about the importance of keeping their virginity and nothing in the girls class about avoiding masturbation- I think the assumption was we wouldn’t. That was over 30 years ago, so it is nothing new is it? It… Read more »

David Runcorn
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These threads can feel like sitting at a dinner table hosted by a neighbouring community. The conversation strays not infrequently into angry dismissal and disparaging of your own community (which is not without faults as you yourself know well, anguish over and wrestle with). Then someone remembers you are sitting there – ‘of course not you Tim/David Keen/xxxx …. ‘.
And if folk here really do not know the present ferment within this tradition and how hard some are working within it – why not ask? – or at least, please, pray for us.

FrDavidH
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FrDavidH

Can I ask Mr Runcorn how hard Gafcon, ACNA. Anglican Mainstream, Reform and the Christian Institute etc. are working to show an inclusive love toward LGBT people?

David Runcorn
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FrDavidH Thank you for your question. I do not belong to any of these groups. But they all claim to be offering nothing less that the love and welcome of Christ to all. And I am in no doubt how seriously many in those groups work at this. But on the basis of their understanding of what scripture teaches they cannot accept gay people in committed same-sex relationships. As I hope you know, I do not agree with them on this. (but can I note, contra to your claim, that their websites reveal active concern with a whole range of… Read more »

Simon Sarmiento
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According to this Church Times report, four CofE clerics have signed the Nashville statement.
https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2017/8-september/news/world/to-sign-or-not-nashville-statement-debate-intensifies

David Runcorn
Guest

I should have made clear I meant ‘serving’ clergy Simon.

Tim Chesterton
Guest

Simon, J.I. Packer is not a Church of England cleric. He has lived in Vancouver since the 1990s (he moved there to become professor of theology at Regent College), was licensed in the Diocese of New Westminster until St. John’s Shaughnessy (where he was an honorary assistant) left the Diocese, and is now licensed in the ACNA.

Simon Sarmiento
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Allberry, Roberts, Taylor, Lucas are the four CofE names mentioned.

David Runcorn
Guest

Simon I stand corrected – it is three not two serving clergy. But Dick Lucas though a legend in the conservative evangelical world and for good reason, is now in his 90’s (like Jim Packer) and not actively part of the current debate.