Things are moving fast? The centre cannot hold?

That is rather premature. Akinola is the greatest friend Anglican liberals could have, since no conservative church group in America or Australia can ultimately be happy with his flamboyant rhetoric. His is unwittingly that even among conservatives there will be lots of tensions, and that the same attitudes of endless patience and mutual respect will have to be drawn on.

Akinola's "cancer" image erects gay-related concerns into articuli stantis et cadentis ecclesiae, issues by which the church stands or falls. But what he seems not to realize is that these concerns are only a surface reflection of a concern of all human communities and families with the welfare of the gay men and women, boys and girls among them. Akinola himself has shown no real understanding here but other conservatives have more perception and their thinking is developing. They will not want a church in which there is an embargo on thought and dialogue and human understanding.

The issue can have sharp definition only if it is reduced to two matters of church law: 1. we do not ordain openly gay bishops; 2. we do not formally bless gay couples. And then the issues are evidenly dill and cummin matters rather than matters of ultimate good and evil. To really satisfy the surgical aspirations of Akinola you would have to cut out as well the closeted gay bishops, even the celibate ones (along the lines of an amazing Vatican document that seeks such a purge at entry level) and the gay members of the faithful, along with heterosexuals who speak warmly of gays (as the Nigerian law championed by Akinola would do, and as the Vatican would like to do for its clerical ranks).

This "cancer" image bears reflecting on. What is the cancer that the Nigerian Bishops really dread? What is the true ground of their fears?

"Spirit of V2" writes 'This "cancer" image bears reflecting on. What is the cancer that the Nigerian Bishops really dread?'

Answer: so called "liberalism" which is a small sect within Anglicanism but not based on the Biblical views which underpin the Articles and history of the church.

Why do they fear "liberalism"?
-Because it is a parasite on Christianity which is paid by Christians to undermine the church from within;
-Because it empties churches as seen in ECUSA which is shrinking by 35,000+ people p.a.;
-Because it is not Christianity as taught by Jesus Christ and his Apostles (eg some "liberals" actually teach people that they can ignore what Christ says about hell and judgement, for example, if they do not like his views....this is a lie with terrible consequences if you believe what Christ said)

Even I as an eclectic (let alone conservatives) see much in Abp Akinola that is far more positive than in his opponents:

(1) He cares enough to be passionate about the issues. So many don't care enough.

(2) He realises the high degree of deviation from what wise men and women have always affirmed.

(3) He realises the degree to which this is intimately bound up with social conformity.

(4) He does not want people to adopt harmful lifestyles. For their own sakes. For their family's sakes. For their societies' sakes.

(5) He realises that life is not entirely a matter of grey issues, although (standard deviation being what it is) most issues tend to be some shade of grey. First rate thinkers (not that he is necessarily one) recognise that there is a great degree of variation in how grey different issues are.

NP ; do you honestly think that the CofE is going to vote to throw out its entire liberal contingent?

Liberal theology is part of Anglicanism: if you wish it not to be it is you too who are proposing a major change.

"Why do they fear "liberalism"?
-Because it empties churches as seen in ECUSA which is shrinking by 35,000+ people p.a"

Um, NP, I would say that, among the competing ideologies, it's (extreme) *conservatism* which is prompting that number (?) to leave!

[It's true that TEC is currently in a "demographic trough". However, I fully expect that today's new American immigrants---like yesterday's American immigrants before them---will assimilate themselves into becoming Episcopalians! ;-p]

Merseymike - look at the ABC's actions when it came to Reading, Coekin, ECUSA......even the ABC is not backing the liberals because the "liberal" experiment is an obvious failure - expensive and embarassing too.

I realise some people have been "liberal" in the hope that their churches will be filled but it just does not work - even in England, Alpha is clearly used by God more than the "believe what you like, it's all the same to Christ" lie of "liberalism"

My hope is that the TEC becomes a reality and all the liberals around the world join it. We have agreed before that an amicable split would be better for everyone because there is little to unite Spoong and Jensen......and most Anglicans find Jensen acceptable - even this ABC's actions have been in line with the orthodox.

JCF - fair point re ECUSA numbers falling as "conservatives" have been leaving for decades - probably an error, leaving the leadership to the extreme "liberals"......however, bending over backwards to be "inclusive" has not led to lots of new people coming in to replace the conservatives. The new Christians tend to be highly concentrated in the "evangelical" churches in the US and the UK, as you know, I am sure.

The saddest thing about the "liberal" experiment is that many hoped to fill churches by ditching what was considered hard to sell from the Bible but this strategy has only emptied churches while, confusingly to some, Alpha has filled churches wih all its underlying views on Biblical morality etc

Demographics point to the US being a mostly non-white country in the next 30 years with the Catholic and "evangelical" churches growing most given immigration from South America in particular. By that tiime, the CofE,given its pathetic decline, may have been replaced by Islam as the state religion in England...

"He does not want people to adopt harmful lifestyles. For their own sakes."

And so endorses their being bunged into prison until they come to their sense? No, that doesn't wash, I'm afraid.

I think it was the comedian Mike Harding who reflected on the suicide law of England and Wales prior to its reform; "If you try and kill yourself because life doesn't feel worthwhile, we'll throw you into jail until you see how lovely your life is." So, mutatis mutandis, if you're a Nigerian who doesn't fancy members of the opposite sex, expect to be thrown into a same-sex jail until you change your mind." Very caring....

"believe what you like, it's all the same to Christ" lie of "liberalism"

Classic straw man tactic, and, I feel, unworthy.

Most liberal Christians have very strict principles underlying their Christian faith — they simply don't happen to be coterminous with yours. It would be an equivalent slur if I were to brand all conservatives as six-day creationists supportive of the genocide, ethnic purity, capital punishment and subjugation of women enshrined in Scripture.

Wish I'd posted on this one sooner (sorry). There are parties who are assuming that Jesus doesn't have an opinion on all this - after all it is to do with what and who he is. As I commented to a colleague a few days ago, Hitler and Mohammad were wiser in that they referred to alternative texts and therefore weren't using the Book of Truth as a weapon of intimidation.

Too many puritans have complained and demanded that rogue elements be intimidated into silence, so Jesus had to come and check out the fracas. Pity for them that Jesus gathers his facts before passing judgment, and that Jesus is the ambassador for a God of compassionate mercy and justice, and protector of the fatherless and afflicted.

NP; you are deliberately avoiding the fact that NO church is 'doing well'. The UK is essentially a secular country and the pattern of Sunday churchgoing has disappeared never to return.

In a postmodern society, I think liberals are more likely to be able to relate to the diverse spiritual interests which exist, but that will not mean a return to Sunday morning church. We are talking about a totally different approach and way of being and thinking - one which most liberals themselves haven't even seriously considered. But, they must, because in the UK traditional Christianity is effectively dead other than to the small number who desire that sort of unthinking, unchanging certainty.

It's not the case that no church is doing well. Plenty of pentecostal churches are doing very well indeed, and others in other denominations. The overall UK trend is down, in marked contrast to Africa, SE Asia and Latin America