Soooooo....

what do we know about him?

[To wit:

"I look forward to meeting the people of my new diocese and those members of the Church throughout the island of Ireland . . . welcomed me and my family into their homes and parishes, sharing both joys and sorrows."

Including LGBT people? LGBT members of the Church? LGBT homes, sharing joys and sorrows?]

Inquiring minds (prayerful hearts!) want to know...

From http://irishangle.net/nuacht/?q=node/423

Bishop Harper is perceived to be liberal on a number of social issues. Speaking on BBC Radio Ulster in September 2003, Bishop Harper affirmed permanent homosexual relationships: "if a relationship between homosexual males is creative of love as well as being permanent and lifelong I don’t think that I am able to say that it is intrinsically disordered. What I am very much concerned about is the problem of promiscuity which is a totally different issue. I’m not entering now into the question of whether or not a homosexual lifestyle as we see it is intrinsically more promiscuous than what we call a straight lifestyle. But I am concerned about faithfulness."

This is similar to what he said to his diocesan synod in 2003 about cohabiting heterosexual couples: "That form of cohabitation in which couples commit themselves to each other in a loving, consenting, exclusive, permanent relationship is a form of commitment less complete than marriage, and therefore not the same as marriage, but is, nevertheless, a state of life which may be chosen in good conscience and is deserving of respect."

While affirming such extra-marital partnerships, he clarified to a diocesan conference in 2003 that he "could not and would not ordain to the diaconate or the priesthood any person whom I knew to be engaged in an active homosexual relationship. I believe that such an action would be in conflict with the mind and the accepted practice of the Church of Ireland. I also believe that such a deacon or priest living openly in an active relationship might well be vulnerable to an action brought in a church court for the offence of 'conduct unbecoming'."

More recently he has written to his clergy on the 'blessing' of civil partnerships, advising against using such liturgies on legal and constitutional, rather than scriptural or moral grounds: "The Church of Ireland has not considered, provided or authorised any order of service for the Blessing of a Registered Civil partnership. I consider that the devising of such a liturgy by any member of the clergy at this time . . .would be likely to constitute a variation 'of substantial importance' in any form of service prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer or elsewhere. It might also be deemed or interpreted by some to be indicative of a 'departure from the doctrine of the Church.'"

quotations from the new Primate

Bishop Harper is perceived to be liberal on a number of social issues.
Speaking on Radio Ulster in September 2003, Bishop Harper affirmed permanent
homosexual relationships: "if a relationship between homosexual males is
creative of love as well as being permanent and lifelong I don’t think that
I am able to say that it is intrinsically disordered. What I am very much
concerned about is the problem of promiscuity which is a totally different
issue. I’m not entering now into the question of whether or not a homosexual
lifestyle as we see it is intrinsically more promiscuous than what we call a
straight lifestyle. But I am concerned about faithfulness."

This is similar to what he said to his diocesan synod in 2003 about
cohabiting heterosexual couples: "That form of cohabitation in which couples
commit themselves to each other in a loving, consenting, exclusive,
permanent relationship is a form of commitment less complete than marriage,
and therefore not the same as marriage, but is, nevertheless, a state of
life which may be chosen in good conscience and is deserving of respect."

Is he going to have to sit at the children's table with our Presiding Bishop in Tanzania due to his views on marriage, or will the fact that he doesn't ordain gays and lesbians mean that Rowan will let him sit with the grown-ups?

"Is he going to have to sit at the children's table with our Presiding Bishop in Tanzania due to his views on marriage, or will the fact that he doesn't ordain gays and lesbians mean that Rowan will let him sit with the grown-ups?"...

...whilst Rowan himself sits at the children's table?
Lois Keen

I think you must be mixing tables.

"...whilst Rowan himself sits at the children's table?"

A good question, Lois Keen. But we all know that ++Rowan has "repented" of his foolish liberal, all-inclusive ways. His good friend, Jeffrey John, was the first victim of his "repentance". Now it is godly women seeking ordination in the Diocese of Fort Worth, with ++Rowan's Panel of Reference backing up spiky Jack Leo Iker, who has absolutely no respect for women ("the wrong matter"). ++Rowan's misogynist Panel even presumes to have authority to over-ride the 1997 General Convention's anti-discrimination canon.

Folks,

this is the Church of Ireland. Alan is my 'back home' Diocesan Bishop (in one of two Dioceses big enough for not every regular churchgoer to be on first-name terms with the Bishop). Alan is as liberal as it gets, in high office, in the CofI north of the border. The folks at Irish Angle will not have been terribly happy at this appoitment, notwithstanding Alan is one of life's nice guys and I suspect few have any real dislike of the man. Although the wackier members of Deform Ireland could probably mange to dislike anything.

He is very good at building bridges, which is A Good Thing these days, though he does it without the overtly weathervane approach of Eames. Unlike Eames, you know where Alan stands; he's good at working with people who aren't standing in quite the same place.

If Bishops are formed by their parochial ministry, then Alan spent a lot of time in liberal South Belfast full of such odd things as mixed marriages, ethnic minorities, English people, converts, academics, high church Anglicans and (whisper it), yes, homosexual people. An Englishman himself, in many ways he is a representative of the New Ireland and the New Northern Ireland, as much as Eames was a representative of the old Northern establishment.

All this will be very interesting in an island with the highest rate of immigration in Europe and probably the most rapid divergence of church and common opinion on 'human' sexuality on the planet.

And please forgive all my optimism. I can't help it even though I remember feeling exactly the same way about Rowan. Maybe putting the Te Deum on my blog was a bit excessive?

Yeah the whole thing looks like it is getting nasty and I will bet that no matter what the outcome so far as the advancing or slowing of the much vaunted split (aka disciplining of wayward TEC) - Rowan Williams and other not quite so rigidly ConsEvs leaders (plus lay people?) are not going to like the new, realigned worldwide communion very much. Thus, we hope and pray and expect somehow that God's grace will continue to spill over and out and under and over and around all the rest that happens. Just as the Holy Spirit has begun to redefine queer folks as something other than filth and danger, starting surprisingly in all those queer hearts that legacy witness said would never have any business stepping out by faith into any new and better existential and spiritual place.

So much for the legacy's failure to predict that the Holy Spirit can grow the fruits of care anywhere that God wants, whether or not we predicted it would or could arise, among all the Gentiles.

Thus allowing all the rest of us whom all this realignment warfare actually doesn't represent very accurately to just keep on following Jesus of Nazareth, growing in love of God, and living daily in as much love of neighbors of all sorts as we can manage and bear.

Shall the ire and disgust of the antigay African and Global South Primates separate us, then, from the love of God? Doubtful, that is. Difficult to see is the future, always in motion is the Holy Spirit of Jesus the Risen Lord.

He may be 'as liberal as it gets in NI' but I am appalled at the homophobic quotations from his utterances, nonetheless. Just as Eames' homophobia appalls me.

Niceness is not enough

Let's WAKE UP ....

Yes, I agree, laurence.

This is called 'the party line' - that fence must get so very uncomfortable.

Laurence,

"I am appalled at the homophobic quotations from his utterances" ????? Can you be more specific? Granted, what I know is what's published here, but all I can see that might fit is his comment on completeness of the form of commitment, and that seems relatively minor, at least to me.

I might add that we cannot conflate his statement on homosexual couples with cohabiting heterosexual couples. The former are making the most complete commitment possible at present as we work out the meaning of such relationships in providing for rite, the latter could marry.

Yes, what an awful thing niceness is....

Gerry
You are only being excessive if you would NOT have put the Te Deum on your blog had, say, Ken Clarke or Harold Miller been elected (but then you and I know that would never have happened!).

I agree with you that Alan is a nice guy (he is a former Rector of my home parish and we're also on first name terms) however, to be fair to IrishAngle et al, you really shouldn't confuse dislike with disagreement. Some of the remaining evangelicals in Connor may not be able to stomach everything he has said, for example on marriage (or, more infamously, clergy vestments) but I understand they have a high regard for his fairness and his efforts at properly resourcing the Diocese.

Our prayers are with him.

(Apologies to the rest of the posters for being so parochial - it's just nice to have a natter with another Irish Anglican once in a while!)

Hi Ford,thanks for message. Are your BS detectors working? Mind you we're all different.

'Bishop Harper is perceived to be liberal on a number of social issues. Speaking on BBC Radio Ulster in September 2003, Bishop Harper affirmed permanent homosexual relationships: "if a relationship between homosexual males is creative of love as well as being permanent and lifelong I don’t think that I am able to say that it is intrinsically disordered. What I am very much concerned about is the problem of promiscuity which is a totally different issue. I’m not entering now into the question of whether or not a homosexual lifestyle as we see it is intrinsically more promiscuous than what we call a straight lifestyle. But I am concerned about faithfulness." ' 'While affirming such extra-marital partnerships, he clarified to a diocesan conference in 2003 that he "could not and would not ordain to the diaconate or the priesthood any person whom I knew to be engaged in an active homosexual relationship. I believe that such an action would be in conflict with the mind and the accepted practice of the Church of Ireland. I also believe that such a deacon or priest living openly in an active relationship might well be vulnerable to an action brought in a church court for the offence of 'conduct unbecoming'." 'More recently he has written to his clergy on the 'blessing' of civil partnerships, advising against using such liturgies on legal and constitutional, rather than scriptural or moral grounds: "The Church of Ireland has not considered, provided or authorised any order of service for the Blessing of a Registered Civil partnership. I consider that the devising of such a liturgy by any member of the clergy at this time . . .would be likely to constitute a variation 'of substantial importance' in any form of service prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer or elsewhere. It might also be deemed or interpreted by some to be indicative of a 'departure from the doctrine of the Church.'"
Posted by: Delighted on Thursday, 11 January 2007 at 12:36pm GMT

Thanks to Delighted for the info., and I'm delighted to lift it ! This is unacceptable to me as a human being, therapist, ordained minister, religious practitioner, and gay man. Twenty of thirty years ago I would have been delirious about his 'liberality'.
But I have moved on and am no longer satisfied by such scraps tossed our way. How lacking in respect he is for lesbians and gay men and ...
see next post !

continued from last post :

How lacking in respect he is for lesbians and gay men and for our communities. We are mere ciphers--nor reall people of all ages, all walks of life and lovers of all kinds, parents, grand-parents, responsible women and men. It is disgraceful to speak of our communities and 'promiscuity' in the same breathe. (Whatever ' promiscuity' may be.)
If you doubt me , try 'the heterosexual equivalence test'. Just substitute heterosexual, married or whatever for gay. Or maybe try black, jewish, female for size. The refusal to ordain lesbian and gay people, and the terms used is totally unacceptable to me. Don't let involvement in the Church lower your standards of how you expect to be treated and what you expect from straights Ford. Bullshit is bullshit.
Bull detectors are as important as Gaydar, surely ?

I will not allow anyone to treat me and my community like this ever again. (Will we still be fighting for full equality from our bath chairs ?! ; -) I am amazed at how tolerant we are as a community. One of the offical press releases blithely ends with these words (below). Which in the light of his denial of full equality to our community shows he and the anglican straight establishment just don't get it. They just aren't heeding EM forster -- 'Only Connect'.

Bishop Harper is married to Helen and they have four children and one grandchild.
(C of I website)

ALL the best Ford,
laurence

Well, Laurence, I know where you are coming from, I just don't feel the same way. I spent a long time coming to terms with my sexuality, I can't expect a body of millions of people, all of whom are at different places on the path, to just jump to suipport me. If in the context of Irish society, the bishop finds no reason to discriminate, but still insists on living by the dictates of the Church, that's enough for now. The next bishop will go a bit further. Meanwhile, I will get on with the business of living my life, and trying to be a Christian. I know how valuable my relationship is to me, and if the Primate of Ireland has misgivings as to the equity of my relationship to his marriage, so be it. It doesn't mean we should stop now and not fight for anything, just that nothing ever happens all at once, and the Church is particularly slow. There are no doubt those under his care whose faith would be severely shaken were he to express an unmeasured support of us. For them, such "liberality' as he does express is a huge challenge anyway. This seems a way to move while causing the least amount of "injury" on both sides.

"Don't let involvement in the Church lower your standards of how you expect to be treated and what you expect from straights Ford"
This gave me pause, and I can't yet put into words how it made me feel. All I can say is that, frankly, I find it annoying when, if I don't share someone's militancy, I am accused of "lowering my standards" or of "internalising" the homophobia of society. Maybe I just don't feel terribly oppressed in my day to day life. That doesn't mean I think everything's hunky dory and we don't need to fight any more, just that I can accept intermediate victories and not get fussed up about not getting everything now.

Some of the remaining evangelicals in Connor may not be able to stomach everything he has said, for example on marriage (or, more infamously, clergy vestments) but I understand they have a high regard for his fairness and his efforts at properly resourcing the Diocese.

Chris - indeed it is nice to speak to not only another Irish Anglican but someone from 'up the road' (my home parish is St. George's, High Street). I agree that a lot of the Evangelical hard core in Connor Diocese do seem to think very highly of Alan, and that's a testament to his ability to build bridges which will be much needed in Armagh.

Even Irish Angle hasn't been too scathing, which given some of the people involved is really quite startling.

I wonder what the general public make of him, and especially the lgbt parishoners of Connor and beyond ?

Niceness is n't enough....

This lgbt parishioner of Connor is quite happy.