The response by the Scottish episcopal Church to the Draft Covenant can be found at:

http://www.scotland.anglican.org/index.php/news/entry/sec_response_to_draft_anglican_covenant/

Kennedy

God, I love New Zealanders.

Here we have a church that has enabled three subcultures to develop and flourish and synergistically improve each other. They embody accepting the diversity that God has thrust upon us and embracing the learnings that follow.

I agree with their concerns about the impositional nature of the covenant, both in its wording and the proposed instruments. Like them, I have reservations about using the word "covenant", purporting a divinity that is simply not theirs to claim.

I loved their ending paragraph. It is so true, you can not add value nor transform anything if you are just like everything. If church leaders act like the rough and tumble thugs we expect in the mainstream world, they should not be surprised that God spits them out as having lost their saltiness and being neither hot nor cold.

The New Zealanders have remembered their saltiness and made their yes mean yes and their no mean no. Yes to diversity, no to tyranny, all flavoured with faith in God's love and desire for diversity.

This is as close to a NO as you can get without saying no completely. This is because the Lambeth Conference requires a commitment to say yes. It means that Lambeth Conference is arrogantly taking decisions upon itself before they even turn up, and they are having to bend towards it.

Imagine New Zealand being kept out of the Anglican Communion when it has done nothing at all to even warrant its consideration, all because it cannot sign up.

The Church here has its own cultural view which should be the Anglican view:

"a sense of extended family or whanaungatanga, and this is intrinsic to our life together and is in fact the real covenant."

The legalistic Covenant does not exactly give this Church much in the way of confidence.

This and the document from Scotland pretty much demolish the proposed covanant. Both are eloquent in their affirmation of the value - and the value of the limits - of the relationship we now enjoy as a Communion. Let's hope this silly covenant idea simply withers away.

"They embody accepting the diversity that God has thrust upon us and embracing the learnings that follow."

Some in NZ consider this to be oppressive, as we have seen on this list. Now, I have responded sarcastically and angrily in the past to that, and will likely do so again, but in a calmer mind I can also realize the need to try to understand this. How is it that giving the church a role in preserving rather than destroying traditional culture is seen as oppressive to the holders of power? What is a correct response to that? The scorn that pours out of me is certainly not correct, but how to minister to those who feel oppressed when they lose their traditional power?

So both New Zealand & Scotland are advocating Anglican "diversity" -- I always have myself -- "big tent Anglicanism" is my term -- it is a handful of Evangelicals (joined by a handful of Anglo-Catholics) who now want to change this traditional aspect of Anglicanism (which is downright hilarious when you think about it).

http://pluralistspeaks.blogspot.com/2008/01/when-sort-of-means-no.html

As it says - when sort of means no.

Ford

I can relate to your frustration.

The same kind of whining comes from pedophiles and wife-bashers who are told they are no longer allowed to groom victims for serial offences. It's been rather fun to watch churches squirm as they have tried to deny their collusion with such souls and then do "an Adam" and point the fingers at compatriots, hoping the chain of truth never weaves its way back to their own front door.

It is true that there is deprivation in peace. Those who love violence, accusations, theft, vandalism and deceit are the ones who are seen as a threat to society.

Peace is not easy. Peace means choosing to trust in God. Peace means refraining from "acting out" or "lashing back" when someone hurts you. Peace means not going with the flow if that is going to lead to a riot or lots of people getting hurt (e.g. ensnared in a drug or prostitution circle). Peace means cohabitating with that which is different to you. Peace means sharing and giving, sometimes with people you neither like nor trust.

Peace is not and has never been "easy". That is why God fights so vehemently for it, reaffirms it again and again, and promises us everlasting covenants of peace with tyranny far removed.

If it were not a God decree, there would be no hope of even have a year or decade of peace, let alone a century or millennia.

Why haven't the cons sent in episcopal
" visitors" as the Dunedin diocese ordains and blesses gays? New Zealand sem to have got off scot free. The samll number of evangelicals
( divided on womens ordination) are desperately trying to set up a separate theological college.