Saturday, 15 November 2008

this week's opinion collection

Geoffrey Rowell writes in The Times, The moral integrity that makes for a powerful speech.

George Pitcher writes in the Telegraph, The Prince of Wales must keep the faith.

Nick Jowett writes in the Guardian about Baron Friedrich von Hügel.

Earlier this week, Giles Fraser wrote in the Guardian about Proposition 8 in California, Sanctified discrimination.

Yesterday, in the Church Times he wrote Forces buck the me-first trend.

At Comment is free Belief the Question is Should we fight war to end wars? Those responding include Jonathan Bartley, see Redemptive violence is a myth, and Alan Wilson, see Crusading gives me the creeps. So does Valhalla.

And thanks to both Alan Wilson and David Keen, for linking to How To Actually Talk To Atheists (If You’re Christian) by Joe the Peacock.

Posted by Simon Sarmiento on Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 10:20am GMT | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Opinion
Comments

Another clever piece from Giles...but no mention of the Mormon Church ( which unlike the Catholic Church) mobilised its entire constituency against the vote. This is remarkable ,as although the Utah Mormons supsended the practice of Polygamy in 1890 ( to gain statehood and stop the US government nationalising its assets)it still teaches that polygamy is the Divine pattern for Heaven.

A widower may still be sealed for time and eternity in a temple wedding to another woman.

So Mormons actually still believe marriage is for one man and a potential unlimited number of wives.

How ironic....in nineteenth century America, the Mormons were regarded as the greatest threat to Christian marriage withbtheir practice of " plural marriage"!

Adam and Steve ...no....but Adam, Eve, Rebeccca, Sally, Joyce et al.. I ask you!

Posted by: Robert Ian williams on Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 11:19am GMT

"The churches must be recalled to truth and justice. As one upper-crust New York woman says to another in a US newspaper cartoon I saw recently: "It's not the gays that are threatening my marriage. It's the straight women that are sleeping with my husband." - Giles Fraser -

Again Fr. Giles is right on the ball with this comment. It is not the existence of gays that is threatening the survival of hetersexual marriage, rather, is is the unfaithful activity of those spouses who are already heterosexually married.

The hyposcrisy of some of those who perpetuate the idea of gays being a threat to marriage is the issue that needs to be addressed. What gays are advocating is not some arrangement of serial relationships - such as is often practised by heterosexual partners - but a simple acceptance of a recognised committed relationshop between two people who love each other, but who happen to be homosexual. It has been said that, in every act of loving (not lusting) there is something of God. Do we believe that is possible for people who just happen to be gay?

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 10:50am GMT

Robert in your comment on this thread you said:

"Another clever piece from Giles...but no mention of the Mormon Church (which unlike the Catholic Church) mobilised its entire constituency against the vote."

Are you saying here that the Roman Catholic Church did not take part in the condemnation of Gay Marriage? Well, they did try to influence their clients to vote against Obama on the issue of abortion, and are presently wondering why it didn't work, and what happened to their magisterial powers of persuasion.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 10:51am GMT

Ron...The catholics did campaign against it...but the Mormon church actually mobilised the full force of its 800,000 members in California. A smaller Church , it has more power over its members.

However for the Catholic Church to join the same platform is ridiculous , for as I point out the Utah Mormon Church ( even though they have suspended the prctice of earthly polygamy since 1890) believe and teach that polygamy is the Divine pattern for Marriage.

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt ( anscestor of Mitt Romney)taught that the two Mary's were the wives of Jesus. Indeed Mormons believe God the Father ( an exalted man of flesh and bone ) has a wife or wives in Heaven. I kid you not.

Furthermore Mormons now accept divorce and since the 1960s contraception.

Posted by: Robert Ian Williams on Monday, 17 November 2008 at 6:56am GMT

It's not hard for the Mormons to mobilize their members--because if those members do not obey and tithe they will not get to become gods when they die and rule over their own planets along with their harems of goddesses, with whom they breed vast numbers of "spirit children."

Yes, this is really what Mormons teach.

American Christians have long viewed the Mormons as a particularly dangerous (and loopy) cult, and I strongly suspect that their big $ anti-gay campaign is as much about improving their image among Christians as it is about stopping gay marriage.

Posted by: JPM on Monday, 17 November 2008 at 2:30pm GMT
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