thank you for doing these

The two-thirds majority vote in each House surely represents a common mind on the need for women bishops in the C.of E. The big question now is: whether the women bishops appointed will be seen to merit equal authority, as diocesans, with their male counterparts. If not, it would seem that a mysterious 'Fourth Order' will be created in the domain of Holy Orders in the C.of E.

Fr Ron - you don't seem to get it. Women bishops AND their male counterparts who ordain women are equally unacceptable to most traditionalsists. So they will indeed be treated equally as Diocesans.

In reply to Fr. Ron, can I just say to be wary of appearances. Many of those who spoke very critically of the code of practice et al voted to send it to revision, it doesn't mean they will vote for it next time - on either side of the argument. The real debate now is over HOW women will be consecrated and what sort of church structures they will find.
As for being equal as bishops, perhaps if Synod etc had spent more time on the Rochester report - theology of the episcopate, we might be spared some of this debate now

Graeme Buttery

"it would seem that a mysterious 'Fourth Order' will be created in the domain of Holy Orders in the C.of E."

There already are 4 orders of ministers:

Q: Who are the ministers of the Church?
A: The ministers of the church are lay persons, bishops, priests, and deacons.

p. 855 BCP

I think this is a major difference in understanding the church, and why the ABC, among others, fails to understand that our neither our Presiding Bishop or House of Bishops can bully the rest of us.

I unerstand that he will be invited to our General Convention this summer - so far he's the only ABC in modern times who has not done so [yet].

I hope he comes and I hope he stays for enough of it to see the process of bicameral, lay and ordained governace at work. I hope he also in invited to and attends the Integrity Eucharist.

I expect he will come and lecture us and then leave. After all, he spent his sabbatical in the US with the Jesuits in DC and did not once venture into a TEC church to see the breadth and variety of how we 'do' church.

This is deliberate strategy..defeat the measure for five years , so take it to the voting stage to fall. However that may work eventually to the womens advantage as eventually force of numbers will open the door for them.

"There already are 4 orders of ministers:
Q: Who are the ministers of the Church?
A: The ministers of the church are lay persons, bishops, priests, and deacons." - Cynthia Gillatt

Sorry, Cynthia! I took it for granted that most people on this site would have realised I was speaking of a possible 'Fourth Order' as being part of the ordained ministry of the Church. I think you are referring to the Total Ministry Concept, which, of course, is a valid concept.

"I took it for granted that most people on this site would have realised I was speaking of a possible 'Fourth Order' as being part of the ordained ministry of the Church."

Thanks - I had not been following the discussion o women bishops closely enough to have registered that. An object lesson on paying closer attention to how other people use language in their own context.