“For the Communion to recognize two provinces in one country (USA or Canada*) – one geographical, growing from its historical roots, and second, existing in order to further a particular theological agenda – would spell the doom of any coherent Anglican ecclesiology. The First Council of Nicaea, faced with the Novation controversy (a somewhat similar situation, actually), ruled that there can be only one bishop for one diocese. Anglicans have always followed this rule, for good reason.” – Bishop Pierre Whalon – Bishop Pierre’s essay for ‘Anglicans Online’ has put the Covenant process in perspective, when he suggests that the… Read more »
Stephen Noll, a key GAFCON/FCA theologian, has written a perceptive article on the Ridley Cambridge draft, ‘The Ridley Cambridge Draft: an appreciation’, on his blog, Stephen’s Witness, 20 April 2009.
‘It is my conclusion that the GAFCON churches should move to the front of the queue and sign on to the Covenant.’
Very encouraging indeed that GAFCON at last recognises that the Covenant is the way forward.
drdanfee
14 years ago
I again find Bishop Ws remarks clear, and his summary of significant history or contexts quite apt. None of these is all that telling, however, to me. So far, the covenant seems to have arisen sharply, bearing two streams of problematics. One is the My Way Or The Highway rise of conservative evangelical plus conservative high church believers. The wedge issue was at first supposed to be WO; but then nobody seemed all that determined to fight to the death about women, though bishops have heated that up quite a bit at least in CoE. The other stream was more… Read more »
Stephen Noll has written a rather two tracked view of the Covenant draft, though I’m in the in between of commenting on it for my blog and having a new group cartoon.
I’m also wondering about a blog for our so very different In Depth Group this evening and its lively discussion (that nicely went on in between parts of my presentation as well as afterwards).
“Very encouraging indeed that GAFCON at last recognises that the Covenant is the way forward.” With Graham Kings and Stephen Noll agreeing that the Covenant would best serve GAFCON & FCA, this fact should send a signal to the rest of us: that ACNA is very serious about meeting certain requirements in order to be accepted, as an alternative North American Province, by the Instruments of Unity. – All this, despite the vilification of Canterbury by the Primates of GAFCON, who might just be using the Covenant to undermine the Communion. I’m sorry to sound so cynical, but one must… Read more »
“For the Communion to recognize two provinces in one country (USA or Canada*) – one geographical, growing from its historical roots, and second, existing in order to further a particular theological agenda – would spell the doom of any coherent Anglican ecclesiology. The First Council of Nicaea, faced with the Novation controversy (a somewhat similar situation, actually), ruled that there can be only one bishop for one diocese. Anglicans have always followed this rule, for good reason.” – Bishop Pierre Whalon – But Nicea was not about a denomination or ‘communion’ (in the modern sense), but about the whole Catholic… Read more »
Ford Elms
14 years ago
“And if we were asked for our justification for the continued existence of those structures, would at least part of our answer not be ‘theological differences’?” But ought we not to be working and praying sincerely for these “sad divisions” soon to cease? Is it really such a good idea at this time in our history to actually add to this situation? Besides, a diocese is the local ecclesia gathered around its bishop, it is NOT, as Bp. Whalon says, a group of people whose existence is based on the furtherance of a particular political agenda. The point of diocese… Read more »
Ford, I’m in full agreement with that sentiment. However, I note that only a very few individuals are practising it by ‘returning to the mother church’. Everyone who (in theory) believes it is still, by their practise, testifying to their belief that their doctrinal and historical differences with the Roman Catholic Church continue to justify their separate ecclesial status. In practice, we show that we believe that truth (or, to be honest, our interpretation of the truth) is more important than unity. That being the case, it seems a bit hypocritical for us to criticise others for doing the same… Read more »
Father Ron Smith
14 years ago
“For let it be clearly stated, there is no future for a vibrant and coherent Anglican and Christian body that includes The Episcopal Church (TEC) and Anglican Church of Canada (ACoC) as they now exist” – Professor Stephen Noll, on the revised (Ridley) Covenant draft – This is a clear and unequivocal statement by Prof. Stephen Noll that he would exclude the TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada from any viable Covenant relationship. (This would give TEC and the A.C.of C., and others sympathetic to them within the Communion adequate reason to spurn the Covenant process altogether). NOW: Is… Read more »
Ford Elms
14 years ago
“That being the case, it seems a bit hypocritical for us to criticise others for doing the same to us.” Well, the “sad divisions” are something that we have inherited as a fait accompli. Many of the groups that have arisen out of those disputes recognize the current situation is not right, and are working towards healing them, however fitful and sporadic those attempts may look. Much has already occurred. My godson is Roman Catholic. It isn’t that long ago that I would have caused a stir in both his Church and mine for even going to his Baptism, and… Read more »
“For the Communion to recognize two provinces in one country (USA or Canada*) – one geographical, growing from its historical roots, and second, existing in order to further a particular theological agenda – would spell the doom of any coherent Anglican ecclesiology. The First Council of Nicaea, faced with the Novation controversy (a somewhat similar situation, actually), ruled that there can be only one bishop for one diocese. Anglicans have always followed this rule, for good reason.” – Bishop Pierre Whalon – Bishop Pierre’s essay for ‘Anglicans Online’ has put the Covenant process in perspective, when he suggests that the… Read more »
Stephen Noll, a key GAFCON/FCA theologian, has written a perceptive article on the Ridley Cambridge draft, ‘The Ridley Cambridge Draft: an appreciation’, on his blog, Stephen’s Witness, 20 April 2009.
http://www.stephenswitness.com/2009/04/ridley-cambridge-draft-appreciation.html
He states:
‘It is my conclusion that the GAFCON churches should move to the front of the queue and sign on to the Covenant.’
Very encouraging indeed that GAFCON at last recognises that the Covenant is the way forward.
I again find Bishop Ws remarks clear, and his summary of significant history or contexts quite apt. None of these is all that telling, however, to me. So far, the covenant seems to have arisen sharply, bearing two streams of problematics. One is the My Way Or The Highway rise of conservative evangelical plus conservative high church believers. The wedge issue was at first supposed to be WO; but then nobody seemed all that determined to fight to the death about women, though bishops have heated that up quite a bit at least in CoE. The other stream was more… Read more »
Stephen Noll has written a rather two tracked view of the Covenant draft, though I’m in the in between of commenting on it for my blog and having a new group cartoon.
http://www.stephenswitness.com/2009/04/ridley-cambridge-draft-appreciation.html
I’m also wondering about a blog for our so very different In Depth Group this evening and its lively discussion (that nicely went on in between parts of my presentation as well as afterwards).
http://www.vary.freeuk.com/learning/relthink/theologypaper08.html
“Very encouraging indeed that GAFCON at last recognises that the Covenant is the way forward.” With Graham Kings and Stephen Noll agreeing that the Covenant would best serve GAFCON & FCA, this fact should send a signal to the rest of us: that ACNA is very serious about meeting certain requirements in order to be accepted, as an alternative North American Province, by the Instruments of Unity. – All this, despite the vilification of Canterbury by the Primates of GAFCON, who might just be using the Covenant to undermine the Communion. I’m sorry to sound so cynical, but one must… Read more »
“For the Communion to recognize two provinces in one country (USA or Canada*) – one geographical, growing from its historical roots, and second, existing in order to further a particular theological agenda – would spell the doom of any coherent Anglican ecclesiology. The First Council of Nicaea, faced with the Novation controversy (a somewhat similar situation, actually), ruled that there can be only one bishop for one diocese. Anglicans have always followed this rule, for good reason.” – Bishop Pierre Whalon – But Nicea was not about a denomination or ‘communion’ (in the modern sense), but about the whole Catholic… Read more »
“And if we were asked for our justification for the continued existence of those structures, would at least part of our answer not be ‘theological differences’?” But ought we not to be working and praying sincerely for these “sad divisions” soon to cease? Is it really such a good idea at this time in our history to actually add to this situation? Besides, a diocese is the local ecclesia gathered around its bishop, it is NOT, as Bp. Whalon says, a group of people whose existence is based on the furtherance of a particular political agenda. The point of diocese… Read more »
Ford, I’m in full agreement with that sentiment. However, I note that only a very few individuals are practising it by ‘returning to the mother church’. Everyone who (in theory) believes it is still, by their practise, testifying to their belief that their doctrinal and historical differences with the Roman Catholic Church continue to justify their separate ecclesial status. In practice, we show that we believe that truth (or, to be honest, our interpretation of the truth) is more important than unity. That being the case, it seems a bit hypocritical for us to criticise others for doing the same… Read more »
“For let it be clearly stated, there is no future for a vibrant and coherent Anglican and Christian body that includes The Episcopal Church (TEC) and Anglican Church of Canada (ACoC) as they now exist” – Professor Stephen Noll, on the revised (Ridley) Covenant draft – This is a clear and unequivocal statement by Prof. Stephen Noll that he would exclude the TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada from any viable Covenant relationship. (This would give TEC and the A.C.of C., and others sympathetic to them within the Communion adequate reason to spurn the Covenant process altogether). NOW: Is… Read more »
“That being the case, it seems a bit hypocritical for us to criticise others for doing the same to us.” Well, the “sad divisions” are something that we have inherited as a fait accompli. Many of the groups that have arisen out of those disputes recognize the current situation is not right, and are working towards healing them, however fitful and sporadic those attempts may look. Much has already occurred. My godson is Roman Catholic. It isn’t that long ago that I would have caused a stir in both his Church and mine for even going to his Baptism, and… Read more »