Tuesday, 22 June 2010

Taking Co-ordinate Jurisdiction Seriously

In their announcement yesterday, the Archbishops of Canterbury and York made a serious proposal to amend the legislation before the General Synod to allow Women in the Episcopate.

Not everybody is finding it possible to take their proposal seriously.

As already linked below, Pluralist has written Two for Tea.

DRAFT LEGISLATION ON WOMEN IN THE EPISCOPATE

AMENDMENTS TO BE PROPOSED BY THE ARCHBISHOPS OF ANGLICANISM AND THE NORTH

1. Women are lovely aren’t they and the Revision Committee that has looked into them needs much gratitude. Thank you for your discoveries. However, as Archbishops we would like to overturn all that painstaking and already overturned work and impose our own point of view, and expect the Synod to understand that it is episcopally led. We do not want our ecumenical friend Benedict the 16th to get his way and attract out all the sanctimonious nutters from the Church in England in order to fulfil his ambitions when we need them to fulfil ours, such as passing the Anglican Covenant and introducing a stronger Catholic order of which they would approve. We want these people to think that there is good news for them in this Church…

And an American correspondent has sent this email:

Future News Stories:

June 21, 2011: Dr Rowan Williams and Dr John Sentamu, former officials of the Church of England which they destroyed through inept leadership, have been hired by Major League Baseball. The two have immediately unveiled a plan for a “co-ordinate Perfect Game Pitcher” - Teams that could not accept that their pitcher did not pitch a perfect game would get a photogenic male model dressed in a team jersey to stand in at a photography session holding a ball with a big red “0” boldly emblazoned on it. Barry Bonds commented “Hey, that’s cheating!”

June 21, 2012: Dr Rowan Williams and Dr John Sentamu, former officials of Major League Baseball, which they destroyed through inept leadership, have been hired by the US Republican National Committee. The two have immediately unveiled a plan for a “co-ordinate President” - States that could not accept Sarah Palin as the legitimate elected national leader would get a unemployed Hollywood actress to attend the opening of ball games and to give commencement speeches. Vermont immediately contracted Ellen DeGeneres leaving California to choose between Whoppi Goldberg and Lady Gaga.

June 21, 2013: Dr Rowan Williams and Dr John Sentamu, former officials of the US Republican National Committee, which they destroyed through inept leadership, have been hired by Apple Computer. They immediately unveiled a plan for a “co-ordinate iPhone” - people who cannot accept that the latest model does not have all the features they personally want would get a small white cardboard box on which they can draw anything they want. The two pre-ordered Binney and Smith’s entire annual production of Crayolas to ship with the new devices.

June 21, 2014: Dr Rowan Williams and Dr John Sentamu, former officials of Apple Computer, which they destroyed through inept leadership, have been hired to run the Winter Olympics. They immediately unveiled a plan for “co-ordinate Gold Medalists” - people who cannot accept that their country, no matter how tropical, cannot produce a champion curling team will be emailed a link to a You Tube video showing the medal presentation of the legit winners, out of focus and grainy as to prevent positive identification of players or uniforms (actually, a normal You Tube video), with their own national anthem dubbed in.

June 21 2015….

Posted by Simon Sarmiento on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 11:52am BST | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Church of England
Comments

Even Anglo Catholic Bishop Edwin Barnes (retired flying bishop of Richborough) doesn't seem very keen, judging by this:

http://sbarnabas.com/blog/2010/06/22/3114/

Posted by: badman on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 12:08pm BST

Sir, (Simon),

I recommend your site to interested parties within, and outside of, the Anglican Communion, and follow your postings with considerable interest.

With all due respect, it seems to me impertinent to have placed the comments of someone you list thus "And an American correspondent has sent this email:" on the same footing with clearly identified correspondents of major newspapers and church publications, authorities in the various churches of the Anglican Communion, and others whose identities one may access.

On my view, you've committed a gross error in not relegating these particularly hostile, and, if sardonic, hardly humorous, comments here when they should have been relegated to/posted in the "Comments" section. Or have you perhaps decided to make every e-mail you get, or that suits your attitude, something the rest of us must plow through if we are to continue reading what appears on your site.

Respectfully,
James Meredith Day+

Posted by: The Revd Prof James Meredith Day on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 1:32pm BST

Proposals to qualify decisions to ordain women to any order in the church cause more problems than they resolve. Two outcomes of doing so are (1) they make qualified acceptance of women policy(and I mean women,not just women in holy orders)and (2) they let those who object in conscience off the hook. It is of course important to follow an informed conscience, but it is equally important to be willing to bear the consequences of conscience rather than shift the burden onto others so as to victimize them. Conservative men want to be able to continue living in their virtual churchland, and they expect elaborate measures so that women in mitres don't ruin their fantasy. Here in Canada we've had women in episcopal orders for some time, but as I've posted before they still face some "no go", areas within their own diocese where their episcopal functions are abridged because of gender. Its a tacit policy designed to cater to gender politics. Even after thirty-five years of women's ordination, The Anglican Church of Canada has not been able to make an unqualified commitment to gender equality. The measures being proposed in the CofE will make sure that gender equality is stalled indefinitely. Either the church is committed to gender equality or it is not. I see as well that Rome is making threatening noises about the possibility of Women bishops in England. Bloody impolite of them.
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=644fbd15-0fdf-419c-ab27-75e5d64e681c

Posted by: Rod Gillis on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 2:02pm BST

"It is of course important to follow an informed conscience, but it is equally important to be willing to bear the consequences of conscience rather than shift the burden onto others so as to victimize them."

Our experience w/Minns et alia before they left for Nigeria was that they wished to withhold money from the Diocese while maintaining seat voice and vote in annual meetings. Unlike most US diocese, Dio of Va does not impose an amount for each church to give ot the diocese and does not penalize those who don't give.

When it was proposed that lack of financial support for the work of the diocese should result in some penalty, Miss et alia put on their very very pious faces and claimed it was 'a matter of conscience.' This steamed me, and I replied that I live among Mennonites, whose whose pacifism sometimes brings them athwart of the law. They take the consequences - whether a fine or jail. THAT's what it is to follow your conscience. If some ubermales can't accept the ministry of women, they should find a church that duits them.

Posted by: Cynthia Gilliatt on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 2:56pm BST

James Day: aren't you being a bit po-faced here? I thought Pluralist's post, in particular, was brilliant. The whole way that injustice has become doublethought into rightness by some current church leaders is so beyond satire that we need reminding of how ridiculous it all is, n'est-ce pas?

Posted by: Fr Mark on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 3:21pm BST

Interesting point, Professor Day, but Thinking Anglicans does not claim to be dispassionate nor itself anything other than a vehicle for particular views of a particular character.

Like most organs of information, TA's own predispositions can easily be discerned by the choices of material and the sympathetic or other framing that they get.

Bit like the Gospels, really ....

Posted by: Jonathan Jennings on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 4:30pm BST

Fr Mark,
Had you read my comment attentively, you'd have noted I was not reponding to the "Pluralist" post, but instead to one that had no identity associated with it save for "a correspondent from America" as I aptly, and very carefully, stated in my comment. So no, I'm not in the least po-faced, and don't appreciate the said attribution. Please, before addressing me in future, on the grounds of what you purport to have read as mine, be more careful before making such attributions, for the sake of integrity, the list in its entirety, truthfulness, and, when it is apt, good humor.

Posted by: James Meredith Day on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 4:30pm BST

Seems to me, some folks forget they're protestants. That's the source of a lot of these gyrations.

FiF are the most protestant of the lot !

Hilarious carryings on !

Posted by: Pantycelyn on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 4:46pm BST

Um, Rod, that link is two years old!

Posted by: David | Dah•veed | on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 6:10pm BST

Fr. Day, you are correct, the poster did nail the archbishops for the fools they appear to be. No wonder it should have been relegated to a less annoying spot.

FWIW
jimB

Posted by: Jim Beyer on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 6:23pm BST

Wow, lots of laughing out loud thanks to Pluralist aka Adrian W. Nearly Swiftian, that post. Then again, we must consider the original materials with which he could work, also in their outlandish manners towards women, Swiftian. The two Lords Archbishops should be suggesting we eat women bishops for dinner, but only on high church occasions?

Some fav tropes?

"...15. We think a few tweaks to the current draft legislation will do it; in fact the r can be removed so that this becomes daft legislation.

16. If passed we believe that the resulting chaos would help disguise the hurt and frustration that would be felt on all sides, much more evenly then than if a clear decision had been made and the pain was felt on one side."

Bravo.

Posted by: drdanfee on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 6:29pm BST

David Dah'veed, yeah, the link is two years old. I gotta pay more attention to detail. However, if you read the article, you notice how up to date it remains on substance i.e. timetable, Rome's position, compromise measure, , Williams trying to hold it together, etc etc. Two years is but minutes ago within sacred precincts -Rod

Posted by: Rod Gillis on Tuesday, 22 June 2010 at 8:15pm BST

And here is another critical take on the proposal from John Hunwicke,titled Rowan's Ordinariate

http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2010/06/rowans-ordinariate.html

Posted by: Simon Sarmiento on Wednesday, 23 June 2010 at 11:05am BST

'And here is another critical take on the proposal from John Hunwicke,titled Rowan's Ordinariate.'

http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2010/06/rowans-ordinariate.html

Posted by: Simon Sarmiento on Wednesday, 23 June 2010 at 11:05am BST

Yes indeedy ! I particularly loved this bit :-

'S Thomas the Martyr has passed the Resolutions necessary to protect Catholic Faith and Order and to be part of the fellowship of parishes in unimpaired communion with the Bishop of Ebbsfleet.'

And the end of all our exploration will be (as TS Eliot might have it) and of all our Resolution(s) will be

to be in unimpaired communion with the Bishop of Ebbsfleet (!).

As RS Thomas did put it 'heaven of such imperfection made !'

Posted by: Pantycelyn on Wednesday, 23 June 2010 at 12:26pm BST

"to be in unimpaired communion with the Bishop of Ebbsfleet (!)."

This makes about as much sense as to say:

"Walt Disney (ought) to be in unimpaired communion
with Mickey Mouse"

The question here might be: What sort of communion?

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Thursday, 24 June 2010 at 10:44am BST

to be in unimpaired communion with the Bishop of to be in unimpaired communion with the Bishop of Ebbsfleet (!)."

This makes about as much sense as to say:

"Walt Disney (ought) to be in unimpaired communion
with Mickey Mouse"

The question here might be: What sort of communion?

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Thursday, 24 June 2010 at 1 (!)."

This makes about as much sense as to say:

"Walt Disney (ought) to be in unimpaired communion
with Mickey Mouse"

The question here might be: What sort of communion?

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Thursday, 24 June 2010

Yes, Ron, especially when one reflects that
Ebbsfleet is in fact a sandbank !


Posted by: Pantycelyn on Friday, 25 June 2010 at 5:14pm BST
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