Monday, 5 July 2010

more from the blogs on the Southwark election

The Church Times blog has a useful set of links to earlier events at The Telegraph reports that Jeffrey John is the ‘favoured candidate’ for Bishop of Southwark post

Colin Coward has his analysis at Changing Attitude in The new paradigm unfolds on Radio 4 between Chris Sugden and Giles Fraser!

Jim Naughton has an American view at the Episcopal Café in Not entirely baseless speculation about the Jeffrey John situation.

John Richardson wrote at The Ugley Vicar Be very careful before you object to Dr John.

Posted by Simon Sarmiento on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 1:35pm BST | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Church of England
Comments

Question: if Dr John is appointed Bishop of Southwark, will Dr Williams receive a letter from Kenneth Kearon?

Posted by: Nom de Plume on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 3:00pm BST

I think John Richardson's thing is very fair.

But I despair of some those commentating on his piece.

Posted by: Pantycelyn on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 4:07pm BST

I see a lot of the phrase "Christian Teaching." Just a thought, "shouldn't Christianity be lived, not taught?" Is there room for the Spirit to teach in action?

I posted this on the Ugly Vicar. I get the impression its more about learning rules than living a life in service (at least with many evangelicals).

Posted by: bobinswpa on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 6:33pm BST

Bobin SWPA: Christianity is fine unless one is ecclesiastically "active."

Posted by: Tobias Haller on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 8:15pm BST

Andrew Brown at the Guardian is also worth reading.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/05/crunch-time-at-church-gay-bishop

Posted by: badman on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 8:39pm BST

"I get the impression its more about learning rules than living a life in service (at least with many evangelicals)."

Uh, can you say the word 'control' bob?

Posted by: evensongjunkie on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 8:47pm BST

It should be remembered that for weeks Rowan resolutely defended Jeffrey's appointment - perhaps some might recall his press conferences on the lawn where he told us of the dog turds and other stuff he had received in the post, he was appalled at the naked homophobia and the viciousness of fellow Christians.
Then suddenly he decided it was off.
The explanation I had (Jeffrey had none) was that one (or perhaps two) Asian bishops had rung Rowan and told him "Christians would die - there will be blood on the streets - if you go ahead"

Presumably, as my friend Keith reminded me earlier on today, the consecration of Gene Robinson and now Mary Glasspool - has been reported worldwide - any blood has already been spilt, and it is time to move on from such threats.

There never was any argument against Jeffrey that held water, the position of the English bench on gay sex has always been diverse and the view expressed in Lambeth 1.10 is accepted by the Windsor Report as pro tem and not definitive.

Rowan was fooled into sacking Jeffrey - the towering twit ...... I would be delighted if he now puts things right.

My money's still on Nick Holtham - and interestingly I think he would give those Calvinistic Presbyterians at Morden and elsewhere in the diocese a more harassing run for their money (to coin a phrase)!

Posted by: Martin Reynolds on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 10:07pm BST

There is a further, horrifying post by Colin Coward at Changing Attitude headed:

'Uganda missing gay man found beheaded in a farm latrine while the CofE worries about Jeffrey John'

'A search for a missing pro-gay priest, the Rev Henry Kayizzi Nsubuga, who disappeared almost two and half weeks ago after delivering a scathing speech at St. Paul's Church, Kanyanya supporting homosexuality in Uganda, led the joint search team of Integrity Uganda and Namirembe Diocese to the severed head of another person...
Judith Nabakooba, a police spokesperson, identified the head as that of Pasikali Kashusbe, one of the workers on Kigggundu’s farm and a member of Integrity Uganda.'

http://changingattitude-england.blogspot.com/2010/07/uganda-missing-gay-man-found-beheaded.html

Posted by: chenier1 on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 10:11pm BST

Wow, Canon Sugden is entirely retrograde and empty-headed in his remarks. I'm afraid the more thorough public media exposure his flat earthisms about queer folks get, the more flat earth his prejudices can be weighed to be?

Meanwhile, how very painful. Bravo Southwark for actually putting something positive about queer folks in the person specifications. Isn't that by itself enough to justify the split that Sugden obviously desires and would so sadistically relish? He certainly enjoys the threat, sufficiently. Or is that other missing-neglected half of Lambeth 1998 1.10 suddenly going to resurrect to provide cover?

If NT standards=flat earth stuff as Sugden continuously asserts, we are way, way, way, way back to repeating and relearning the very old - but always new it seems - lessons of Galileo, Copernicus, and that burned heretic Bruno. Religious war, anyone? Going for the don't touch, don't associate' don't ask, don't tell cooties resonances only make it all very worse, in the most bald and prejudiced tones possible. I would write, Sugden ought to be ashamed of himself; but he is obviously having far too much fun in his queer-bashing presuppositional vitalities. All that antigay fun is core to the flat earth pointillism of our legacy traditions.

Elevating JJ to bishop would be a rather pat demonstration of just how big a tent CoE is, and will likely remain. How you square that with policing/punishing TEC and Canada for refraining from mistreatment aimed at their local queer folks gets a bit sticky and tricky? Maybe RW should fire his handlers from the first rounds of this smarmy affair? Stop mealy mouthing around, RW, and preach or publish the most vigorous Anglican big tent leeway you can manage? Is it too late for big tents?

PS, yes Canon, a whole lot of past Christian teaching has unavoidably been flat earth - and it seems we will all relearn those very lessons and chapters by repeating them with queer folks and with women, until the next premodern to modern cooties drumb-beats arise to fuel our flat earthism yet again. Do preachers like Sugden actually know any thriving-capable queer folks as citizens, let alone as believers?

Posted by: drdanfee on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 11:00pm BST

Martin Reynolds is right (as usual!). Jeffrey John's appointment would be just to him; welcome to us; and deeply symbolic. But he might feel he had to pull his punches a bit - just as Rowan Williams has once in office. If Jeffrey John is NOT appointed (whether or not he was ever, really, the favourite), the person who is appointed will be able to take a firm line against the separatists.

Posted by: badman on Tuesday, 6 July 2010 at 9:41am BST

Yes, it's gay blood that is spilt --- nothing new there.

'There is a further, horrifying post by Colin Coward at Changing Attitude headed:

'Uganda missing gay man found beheaded in a farm latrine while the CofE worries about Jeffrey John'

'A search for a missing pro-gay priest, the Rev Henry Kayizzi Nsubuga, who disappeared almost two and half weeks ago after delivering a scathing speech at St. Paul's Church, Kanyanya supporting homosexuality in Uganda, led the joint search team of Integrity Uganda and Namirembe Diocese to the severed head of another person...
Judith Nabakooba, a police spokesperson, identified the head as that of Pasikali Kashusbe, one of the workers on Kigggundu’s farm and a member of Integrity Uganda.'

http://changingattitude-england.blogspot.com/2010/07/uganda-missing-gay-man-found-beheaded.html

Posted by: chenier1 on Monday, 5 July 2010 at 10:11pm

Posted by: Pantycelyn on Tuesday, 6 July 2010 at 10:45am BST

"Do preachers like Sugden actually know any thriving-capable queer folks as citizens, let alone as believers?"

Indeed he does. But whether they want to know him is another matter.

Posted by: Laurence on Tuesday, 6 July 2010 at 10:49am BST
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