Monday, 12 July 2010

General Synod - Women bishops debates - Monday

Amended late Monday afternoon to correct the Clause 11 items

This follows on from our report on Saturday’s debates.

This page will be updated during the debates.

These are the relevant papers.
GS 1708-09Y Report of the revision committee.
GS 1708A Draft Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure
GS 1709A Draft Amending Canon 30
Notice Paper 5 Amendments before Synod

We will update the following two web pages during the debates to show what happens to the amendments and how those amendments that are passed change the text of the draft measure.

Draft measure as amended by Synod
Annotated copy of Notice Paper 5 showing what happened to amendments

Monday morning

After BCP Morning Prayer, and statements from the archbishop of Canterbury and the bishop of Manchester, Synod resumed its consideration of the draft measure.

Clause 2
This is the clause that requires diocesan bishops to make arrangements for delegation of functions to a male bishop for parishes who request the ministry of such a male bishop.

9.57 am Geoffrey Tattersall, on behalf of the Steering Committee, moved item 518 “that Clause 2 stand part of the Measure”.
10.55 Synod votes in favour of closure of debate on item 518. Sufficient members stood to require a division of the whole synod. Item 518 was carried by 373 votes in favour, with 14 against and 17 recorded abstentions.

Clause 3
This sets how parishes can issue a letter of request asking for the ministry of a male bishop.

11.01 am Anthony Berry moved his amendment 519 to require PCCs to consult with electoral rolls before making such a request. The steering committee resisted the amendment. Fewer than 40 members stood so the amendment lapsed.

11.10 am Gerald O’Brien moved amendment 520 to require PCCs to consider making, or not making, a request every five years. The steering committee resisted the amendment, but more than 40 members stood so the amendment was debated.
11.26 am Synod voted against item 520 by a show of hands.

11.27 am Hugh Lee moved amendment 521 to require those involved in appointing incumbents or priests in charge to take into account whether or not a parish has issued a letter of request. The steering committee resisted the amendment, but fewer than 40 members stood and the amendment lapsed.

Several amendments (522 - 527) then followed changing the rules for votes at PCC meetings when considering making a request.

11.33 am Peter Hobson moved amendment 522 to remove the need for a two-thirds quorum at PCC meetings considering making a request. The steering committee resisted the amendment, but more than 40 members stood, so the debate continued.
11.53 am Synod agreed to proceed to a vote. This was a division of the whole synod. The amendment was defeated with 128 votes in favour, 239 votes against and 5 recorded abstentions.

11.56 am Clive Scowen moved amendment 523 to stop a minority being able to frustrate a majority by simply staying away from a meeting.
The steering committee were in favour of the amendment.
Synod voted in favour of the amendment on a show of hands.

Gerald O’Brien moved amendment 525 to remove a clerical veto. The steering committee resisted the amendment, but more than 40 members stood so the debate continued.
12.20 pm Synod voted to proceed to the vote. Sufficient members stood to require a division by houses. The amendment was defeated in all three houses with the following votes.

Voting figures for     against     abstentions
bishops     2 34 3
clergy 35 136 8
laity 83 104 7

Brian Walker moved amendment 527. The steering committee was in favour of this technical amendment. Synod voted in favour on a show of hands.

Synod then moved onto the debate on item 528 “That clause 3 (as amended) stand part of the Measure”. The motion was carried.

Clause 4

12.37 pm Synod voted in favour of 529 “That clause 4 stand part of the Measure”.

Clause 5

12.38 pm Synod voted in favour of 532 “That clause 5 stand part of the Measure”.

Clause 6

12.39 pm Synod voted in favour of 533 “That clause 6 stand part of the Measure”.

Clause 7

12.40 pm Synod debated 534 “That clause 7 stand part of the Measure”.
1.00 pm Synod voted in favour of item 534 on a show of hands.

Monday afternoon

2.30 pm Debate resumed

Clause 8

Amendment 536 was carried, as consequential on item 523.

Synod voted in favour of 537 “That clause 8 (as amended) stand part of the Measure”.

Clause 9

Synod voted in favour of 538 “That clause 9 (as amended) stand part of the Measure”.

Clause 10

Synod voted in favour of 539 “That clause 10 (as amended) stand part of the Measure”.

After clause10

Miranda Threlfall-Holmes did not move her amendment 540a

2.35 pm Paul Benfield moved amendment 541a, to generally approve a new clause that would require two-thirds majorities for future amendment of the legislation. The steering committee resisted the amendment. More than 40 members stood so the debate continued.
Sufficient members stood to support a division of the whole synod.
3.00 pm The amendment was passed with 287 votes in favour, 78 against and 20 recorded abstentions.
Synod then passed 541b “That the clause be inserted in the Measure”.

Clause 11

3.02 pm Paul Benfield moved his amendment 542 to amend clause 11 to require a provision for the relief of hardship to be made available before the measure comes into effect. The steering committee resisted the amendment. More than 40 members stood, so the debate continued.
3.47 pm Synod voted to close the debate.
Synod then defeated the amendment on a show of hands.
Synod then passed 543 “That clause 11 stand part of the Measure.”

Schedules and Long Title

Finally Synod voted in favour of all the following.

544 That Schedule 1 stand part of the Measure.
545 That Schedule 2 stand part of the Measure.
546 That Schedule 3 stand part of the Measure.
547 That Schedule 4 stand part of the Measure.
548 That the Long Title stand part of the Measure.

Further Revision

3.54 pm Simon Killwick then proposed that “That the Measure entitled Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure be committed for further revision in
committee.”
4.19 pm Synod voted to close the debate and move to a vote.
Sufficient members stood to require a division of the whole synod.
The motion was defeated with 102 votes in favour, 293 votes against and 12 recorded abstentions.

Amending Canon
Synod then voted in favour of 549 “That paragraphs 1-9 stand part of the Canon.”

4.25 pm That completed the revision stage of the Measure and Canon.

The measure will now be referred to dioceses.

Posted by Peter Owen on Monday, 12 July 2010 at 10:07am BST | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Church of England | General Synod
Comments

The measurenow goes to the dioceses - hoorah! Please remiind us Yanks and others what comes next and a timetable - assuming all goes well, what would be the earliest that ya'll could have your first woman bishop? Thanks for this meticulous and helpful reporting.

Posted by: Cynthjia Gilliatt on Monday, 12 July 2010 at 6:01pm BST

So, once again I must proffer thanks; even listening to the live feed from the Synod I still would have been lost without the guides in TA.

There were some scary moments along the way. I was, of course, heartened when the ArchBishop of York disposed of the 'give us lots of money, you rotten cads' amendment from Paul Benfield in a robust though loving manner, and even more cheered by the way the Synod disposed of Canon Killwick's 'let's all wake up in the morning and discover it was just a bad dream' attempt to send everything back to committee.

There are, of course, many different kinds of arguments which can be put forward as to why justice naturally compels us to affirm equality for all; I do agree with them but I don't need to rely on them.

For me the question is whether St Paul was lying when he told us that:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

There is still a very long way to go, but it seemed to me that the Synod took a great step fowards today in affirming that Paul spoke the truth. That is, indeed, Good News for me, though I accept that Fr Jonathan Baker probably sees it as the reverse.

On the other hand, Fr Jonathan Baker is accustomed to preaching to the choir; those of us in the wider world are rather more aware of the difficulties in explaining Christ's Gospel of Love to non-Christians, since in practise some groups of people do seem to be a great deal less loved than others...

Posted by: chenier1 on Monday, 12 July 2010 at 7:44pm BST

Cynthia
See summary at end of
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/12/synod-anglicans-women-bishops-vote

Posted by: Simon Sarmiento on Monday, 12 July 2010 at 9:28pm BST

It will all be settled within a decade or so....

Posted by: Pantycelyn on Tuesday, 13 July 2010 at 2:24pm BST
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