Tuesday, 23 October 2012

Women Bishops: Enough Waiting - Videos

Updated several times: latest 19 November

As part of his campaign to persuade General Synod members to back the new women bishops legislation when it returns to General Synod next month, the Archbishop of Canterbury has released video messages by Rebecca Swinson (the youngest member of the Archbishops’ Council) and Bishop of Chelmsford. The links include transcripts of the videos.

Update Another video - this time from the Bishop of Willesden

two more videos: Mark Russell and the Bishop of Worcester

another video: Bishop of Sheffield

and an audio recording from Janet Appleby

and another video: Jan McFarlane

and yet another video: Sam Follett

Posted by Peter Owen on Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 5:20pm BST | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Church of England | General Synod
Comments

In the interests of balance - where are the videos on the Archbishop's Website giving the alternative orthodox and catholic view?

Posted by: Father David on Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 8:17pm BST

Aren't we getting that from all sorts of interest groups already? ++Rowan is simply expressing his opinion...

Posted by: Alastair Newman on Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 10:19pm BST

Dear Father David - I regard myself as orthodox and catholic ... in the interests of balance will you please allow that my self-description is valid? And will you state unequivocally that the orders I have as a priest are valid, and unimpaired by my support for the ordination and conscration of women, and the sacraments I celebrate are not infected by any defect in my character or belief or ministry (Cf Art XXVI, Canon A4)?

Posted by: Mark Bennet on Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 10:25pm BST

In answer to Father David: Perhaps the Archbishop might feel that he has already given what he considers to be the 'orthodox and catholic view'.

It is both 'orthodox and catholic' to believe that God created male and female to be equal sharers in the divine Image and likeness, and, therefore, equally able to share in the Church's leadership. There's nothing 'unorthodox' about that.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Tuesday, 23 October 2012 at 10:27pm BST

Interesting to hear that Rebecca Swinson thinks that the Church should be talking about the "healthcare system" and "benefits". This is a new one on me: I had been under the impression that the Church was supposed to be about the salvation of souls.

Posted by: Original Observer on Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 10:10am BST

Personally, I've never associated or defined "orthodox and catholic" as merely following the dictates of the Zeitgeist. Are my detractors suggesting that the Holy Ghost is misleading the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches in their understanding of doctrines concerning the ministry of Christ's Church?

Posted by: Father David on Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 12:59pm BST

Father David - I understand the Holy Spirit to be leading us all into all truth - and by this I also understand that none of us have got there yet, or are likely to this side of eternity.

Posted by: RosalindR on Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 6:08pm BST

Bishop Cottrell's interpretation of Galatians 3 rather misses the point of the text. It is a radical understanding of the fundamental equality of men and women in the eyes of God. To see it in terms of ordained minsitry is a narrow and rather superficial interpretation and certainly not one that the Church has ever taught. The Bishop is entitled to his own opinion - but I'm afraid it remains just that.

Posted by: William on Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 9:00pm BST

@Fr David: I'm suggesting that those against the ordination of (all) women--whether Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthdox, Anglican, Prostestant---are ***misleading themselves***, and CALLING it "Biblical" "Holy Tradition" "the Infallible Magisterium" and/or "the leading of the Holy Ghost".

Could I be misleading myself (and other OOW supporters, similarly)? Well certainly, God help me, I do that all the time. I appeal (prayerfully) to Scripture, Tradition and Reason, but Lord knows it COULD be your "dictates of the Zeitgeist" (no more and no less than that of my opponents I must add).

However, there is *one* thing in my favor, that no OOW opponent can appeal to: the holy EXAMPLE of (now) ***generations of ordained women*. It is because of their example, that I feel confident in saying "I believe God wills this: take up your burden to PROVE to me otherwise."

Posted by: JCF on Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 9:25pm BST

" Are my detractors suggesting that the Holy Ghost is misleading the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches in their understanding of doctrines concerning the ministry of Christ's Church?

Posted by: Father David on Wednesday

With all due respect, Father, the Holy Spirit gets the blame for lots of things that happen in the Church. One needs to understand that no human agency is infallible - not even the Church.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Wednesday, 24 October 2012 at 10:48pm BST

Well expressed William - surely the equality expressed in Galatians III is concerned with baptism and is simply being hijacked by the Bishop of Chelmsford to promote the far from Biblical or traditional concept of the opening up of the episcopate to all.
I always understood that the Holy Spirit,who does indeed lead us into all truth, is deeply concerned for the unity of Christ's Church. The obvious division this issue is stirring up suggests to me that this novel development is not of the Holy Spirit nor of the mind of Christ who earnestly prayed that we should all be one.

Posted by: Father David on Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 6:50am BST

The Holy Spirit is concerned about unity in Christ and that this should be according to the Roman Catholic formula?
It is certainly possible to believe that, but it is no more objective truth than to believe that we are, simply by being Christians, united in Christ, and that unity does not mean uniformity.

Posted by: Erika Baker on Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 8:18am BST

Bishop Cottrell now the fancied outsider for Canterbury? It is still not too late for Lord Luce's committee to register a new rider coming to the front of the field.
Interesting to see the Abp's fine web site now in part being officially let to Affirming Catholicism.
On a substantive note. While it may indeed be the Lord's will that, on balance, the C of E should introduce women bishops, by no presumption can the flimsy procedures laid out to 'protect' the sizeable minority who cannot in conscience accept this innovation so readily be deemed likewise.

Posted by: Nigel Aston on Thursday, 25 October 2012 at 8:28am BST

I think the point about Galatians is that it has a breadth of vision which encompasses ordained ministry - once you see this possibility, it is actually quite difficult to narrow the vision down so it does not encompass ordained ministry - you have to qualify the broad sweep of Paul's vision.

Posted by: Mark Bennet on Friday, 26 October 2012 at 11:28am BST
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