Friday, 18 January 2013

"awash with misconceptions"

The Anglican Mainstream website carries this editorial (reprinted from New Directions): Special meeting of the House of Laity. It starts:

We are appalled by the news that there is to be a special meeting of the House of Laity of the General Synod to have a vote of no confidence in the Chairman of the House of Laity, Dr Philip Giddings. Dr Giddings spoke up for proper and fair provision for those who in conscience cannot accept the ordination of women to the episcopate. He has been accused of impartiality, a charge not levied against those leaders in other Houses who spoke out firmly in favour of the legislation and indeed in one case against any provision whatsoever for us.

and later continues:

In response to Bishop Jonathan Baker’s fine reflection on the vote in synod the website ‘Thinking Anglicans’ has been awash with misconceptions and in some cases simple untruths. Many commentators have become fixated with the idea that there is a See of Ebbsfleet. Given that Ebbsfleet is a suffragan see of the Archbishop of Canterbury and on the official advert declaring a vacancy in the see it was called the See of Ebbsfleet, one wonders why people are getting so irate. It is of course because they dislike what the See of Ebbsfleet and indeed the other Catholic sees stand for. They dislike the sense of coherence around a bishop that has grown up in our constituency. They cannot understand the world in which we operate, supporting one another and meeting together, because we share a common faith and a common vision. [emphasis added]

Unlike the Anglican Mainstream website, we are open for comments.

Posted by Peter Owen on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 10:17am GMT | TrackBack
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Categorised as: About Thinking Anglicans | Church of England | General Synod
Comments

Erm - he's been accused of PARTIALITY hasn't he - ie of furthering the interests of his chosen 'party' when he should be impartial?

Posted by: Pam Smith on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 10:34am GMT

Did they state clearly that Philip Giddings is Convenor of Anglican Mainstream?

Posted by: The Church Mouse on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 10:49am GMT

All sees, surely, are Catholic sees.

Posted by: Sam Korn on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 10:51am GMT

'cannot understand the world in which we operate, supporting one another and meeting together, because we share a common faith and a common vision'

Some of us would comment that we do understand the world in which they operate and because it is 'of the world' and full of worldly ambition we are prevented from sharing their vision by the power of the Holy Spirit. Why, because it takes the Church of England into a place of impoverishment, disunity, disgrace and dis-empowerment. We have, nevertheless, reason to be thankful for this as in this place of weakness we will re-discover our strength and a renewed sense of mission.

Let us remind them that the Church of England is not an 'operation'. She is part of the Body of Christ suffering with and for God's beloved world bound by a Catholic creed which we proclaim joyfully around the wider Anglican Communion - many of her members have already suffered for truth and equality and have arrived at a place of holy, powerful Apostolic mission held in common. COMMON is a posh term in the Communion of Saints whose 'High Society' we value for her all embracing vision which clearly guides and transcends this political nonsense.

Posted by: Rosie Bates on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 12:08pm GMT

"Dr Giddings spoke up for proper and fair provision for those who in conscience cannot accept the ordination of women to the episcopate. He has been accused of impartiality..."

He "spoke up" for discrimination.

I would accuse him of adhering to the supposed doctrine of "male headship"--a doctrine that the CofE should hasten to disavow.

Posted by: Jeremy on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 12:12pm GMT

Open to comments, but not necessarily to their publication.

Posted by: Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 12:20pm GMT

Futhermore their 'operation' has nothing to do with the cure of souls - quite the opposite - it wounds and so we may take pride in becoming the 'wounded healers'.

Posted by: Rosie Bates on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 12:21pm GMT

I would kind of hope that they 'shared a faith' with the whole of the rest of the Church of England, and for the matter with the rest of Christ's church in all of denominational forms.

Posted by: Francis on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 12:26pm GMT

According to the C of E website, an audio stream of the debate will be broadcast by Premier Christian Radio, starting at 1.30 pm. Go to http://www.premier.org.uk/synod

Posted by: David Lamming on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 12:30pm GMT

"Unlike the Anglican Mainstream website, we are open for comments."

Posted by: Labarum on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 1:06pm GMT

Open for comments? That's a joke. You've never been open to any of mine.

EDITOR ADDS
We have in the past approved 13 comments from your email address and not published only 2 comments. Not all these comments were using the same pseudonym.

Posted by: Jill on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 1:59pm GMT

"Unlike the Anglican Mainstream website, we are open for comments."

My comment disappeared from my last post!

It was simply

"Ouch"

Posted by: Labarum on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 2:03pm GMT

Charity, common sense and justice have prevailed. The house of laity expressed confidence in its chairman.

Posted by: Labarum on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 3:50pm GMT

Yes, I too have been left to "watch this space" over unpublished comments, most recently about the inestimable Dr Giddings who the Church of England so richly deserves.

But to categorise the discussion on the Baker article like this suggests the author of this editorial is away with the fairies, so's to speak.
Because of the delay in publication on a blog like this you can often see similar comments and replies stack up, the debate was good. Where were the lies?

But the bitterness is palpable, and the vision of the Church desperately sad.

Posted by: Martin Reynolds on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 5:30pm GMT

To some, the provisions that "Anglican Mainstream" (obviously a small but vocal minority of CoE) wants looks like they want to be a private club that ministers to their bigotries.

I'm thinking about CoE WB in light of South Carolina. There, a schismatic former bishop is trying to do a hostile takeover of the diocese and it forces every parish and parishioner in the diocese, to make a choice and many to make hurtful decisions to leave their home parishes for another.

Your CoE proposed "provisions" to discriminate against WBs threaten to similarly force whole parishes one way or the other. It is horribly divisive at the local level, few parishes are going to be 100 percent of one stripe. Certainly an entire diocese is not going to be monolithically anti WB.

I propose a radically equal solution.
Don't most dioceses have 2 bishops? Create Affirmative Action so that each diocese has (or work towards) 1 male and 1 female bishop, in whichever role they are elected to serve. Each bishop visits each parish at least once per year. This provision means that the anti WB crowd can have their sacraments administered by a man, but women do not suffer discrimination (some will prefer the woman).

Within a decade of so, the anti WB people will be gone. This is generational. This way, the old white men can have what they want to the end of their lives. And the transition is made for the crowd that cannot abide discrimination or quaint theologies of male headship.

Good luck, y'all.

Posted by: Cynthia on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 6:31pm GMT

I agree with Sam Korn If there are non-Catholic sees in the Church of England, what sense does the new Bishop of Fulham make of the first Canon?

A 1 Of the Church of England
The Church of England, established according to the laws of this realm under the Queen's Majesty, belongs to the true and apostolic Church of Christ; and, as our duty to the said Church of England requires, we do constitute and ordain that no member thereof shall be at liberty to maintain or hold the contrary.

Posted by: Perry Butler on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 7:01pm GMT

Moderation policy at TA might, itself, be an interesting topic.

However even Yours Truly, vict... experienced in the "What Happened to My TA Comment?!" phenomenon, must concede that this thread is not *that* thread.

***

On-topic:

"It is of course because they dislike what the ... Catholic sees stand for."

I dislike how the anti-OOW crowd has (attempted to) appropriated *solely to itself* the term "Catholic".

Posted by: JCF on Friday, 18 January 2013 at 8:04pm GMT

Well, if you read "Catholic" as meaning "discriminating against women," it's not that desirable an adjective.

Posted by: Jeremy on Saturday, 19 January 2013 at 2:24am GMT

JCF: I dislike how the anti-OOW crowd has (attempted to) appropriated *solely to itself* the term "Catholic".

Yes. As if. As if Mary Magdalene wasn't the first Witness to the Resurrection. As if teaching, healing, and hanging out with women wasn't in violation of laws and cultural norms. As if the female church leaders didn't exist in the early church. They did. And they are part of the catholic church of all Christians.

If they want to go over to the Roman Catholic church, fine. I'm sure they'll find their Nirvana there.

Posted by: Cynthia on Saturday, 19 January 2013 at 3:56am GMT

By and large I think that no contributor to a blog such as this should need to hide behind a pseudonym, and to use more than one pseudonym seems to me to be deliberately misleading. (Stands well clear of forthcoming explosion).

Posted by: Richard Ashby on Saturday, 19 January 2013 at 1:50pm GMT
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