Friday, 2 August 2013

New Bishop of Ebbsfleet is announced

10 Downing Street has announced:

The Queen has approved the nomination of the Reverend Canon Jonathan Michael Goodall, BMus, Archbishop of Canterbury’s Personal Chaplain and Ecumenical Secretary at Lambeth Palace, to the Suffragan See of Ebbsfleet in the Diocese of Canterbury, in succession to the Right Reverend Jonathan Mark Richard Baker, BA, MPhil, on his translation to the Suffragan See of Fulham on 13 June 2013…

Lambeth Palace has New Bishop of Ebbsfleet announced.

Forward in Faith has this welcome:

Forward in Faith welcomes the appointment of Canon Jonathan Goodall SSC as Bishop of Ebbsfleet.

In addition to his gifts as a priest and pastor, Fr Jonathan brings with him significant diocesan and national experience. As a former bishop’s chaplain, as a staff member at Lambeth Palace, and as a key participant in ecumenical relationships and dialogue nationally and internationally, he is well equipped for his new role as bishop, counsellor, spokesman and advocate. His expertise will complement that of the other Provincial Episcopal Visitors, the Bishop of Fulham, and the other bishops of the Society, with whom he will work closely.

We wish to express our gratitude to the Archbishop of Canterbury. In making this appointment, he has given a clear signal about the continuance of appropriate episcopal care for our parishes and people.

We look forward to welcoming Fr Jonathan to membership of Forward in Faith and of its Council and National Assembly.

And there is this: Society Bishops welcome appointment of Jonathan Goodall as Bishop of Ebbsfleet.

The Ebbsfleet website has: We have a bishop! (scroll down for a message from the new bishop).

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Comments

Good for Jonathan.

Posted by: cseitz on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 12:56pm BST

What if the new Bishop chooses not to join Forward in Faith or its Council? Very strange ecclesiology for Anglicans.

Posted by: Peter Sherlock on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 1:57pm BST

"We wish to express our gratitude to the Archbishop of Canterbury. In making this appointment, he has given a clear signal about the continuance of appropriate episcopal care for our parishes and people."

"We look forward to welcoming Fr Jonathan to membership of Forward in Faith and of its Council and National Assembly."

Interesting statements. FiF welcomes the appointment but then talks about welcoming him to membership of FiF - so clearly he is not a member at present. In fact recent PEV appointments have all been men who have hitherto kept FiF at least at arms length: Banks, Webster, Goodall. Only Baker, who extols the virtues of Masonry, has had any significant involvement with FiF or the Catholic Group in Synod. PEVs are being appointed but they are establishment men who will play the establishment game. And rightly so - Loyal Anglicans who will live with minimal provision in 1 state church. Those who don't like it should have joined the Ordinariate. Liberals should rejoice at these appointments. Traditionalists are trying to have their cake and eat it and will (secretly) be unhappy with the appointment.

Posted by: Rose on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 3:03pm BST

Rose,

that's an awfully big window you're making into peoples' souls there....

"Loyal Anglicans who will live with minimal provision in 1 state church. Those who don't like it should have joined the Ordinariate. Liberals should rejoice at these appointments. Traditionalists are trying to have their cake and eat it and will (secretly) be unhappy with the appointment"

If traditionalists are to be "(secretly) unhappy," is that any basis for them to assent to "minimal provision" - and if it is so obvious to all, what on earth does it say about the "Liberals" in the majority that they're happy with a system which has that effect on people - for all that they don't happen to be *their* people, and which they know in advance will have that effect?

Sometimes, just occasionally, for all the give and take on this usually excellent forum, someone, on one side or the other (trad or liberal), lifts the veil and what's underneath is desperately unappealing - and does their respective cause no favours whatsoever.

Personally, as an actual traditionalist, rather than someone trying to second guess what traditionalists are thinking, I'm quite happy with the appointment. Fr Jonathan is SSC, and a good chap. Or am I (secretly) unhappy?

Posted by: primroseleague on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 4:37pm BST

Is that Keith Newton holding the monstrance on the Ebbsfleet website? I thought he had poped? Have I missed some new development?

Posted by: Richard Ashby on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 6:40pm BST

I hope that Jonathan Goodall's nomination to Ebbsfleet is a good thing.

Howver, I see that in his 'welcome message' on the Ebbsfleet website, he refers to 'the people of the See of Ebbsfleet' and 'the priests of the See of Ebbsfleet'. This is the sort of language that Andrew Burnham used when he was the PEV holding this titular See, It seems to me that it encourages the idea that the PEV and the parishes whose diocesan bishops respectively ask this PEV to minister to on his behalf -- that they together are some form of dispersed diocese.

I suggest that this sort of thinking and this sort of expression should be discouraged, an that it is the sort of thing which the General Synod has epxressly and very strongly rejected on a number of occasions.

Bishop-designate Jonathan: perhaps it would be good to tone down the rhetoric a little.

Posted by: Simon Kershaw on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 7:45pm BST

Interesting appointment...it means he is not in the running for +Europe now......

Posted by: Perry Butler on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 8:10pm BST

The Bishop pictured is Bishop Roger Jupp, sometime Bishop of Popondetta in Papua New Guinea. He is now parish priest of St Laurence Long Eaton and Superior-General of CBS.

Posted by: Michael Childs on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 8:43pm BST

Richard,

Yes, it is. Yes, he has. No, you haven't. The wheels (of updating a website LTRU) grind very slowly at Ebbsfleet.

Posted by: RPNewark on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 8:53pm BST

Richard: No it's Bishop Roger Jupp.

Posted by: Fr Ross Northing on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 9:07pm BST

Rose is completely wrong about Bp Banks keeping FiF at arm's length. He has also been a member of General Synod in the past and was thus affiliated to the Catholic Group.

Posted by: Benedict on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 9:17pm BST

The "See of Ebbsfleet" is on the documents from The Queen appointing the successive Bishops of Ebbsfleet as it is for every Bishopric Diocesan or Suffragan.

Posted by: Ross Northing on Friday, 2 August 2013 at 11:25pm BST

"His expertise will complement that of the other Provincial Episcopal Visitors, the Bishop of Fulham, and the other bishops of the Society, with whom he will work closely." - F.i.F. Statement -

If this an indication that the 2 Jonathan's will be carrying on the odd situation of those 'rara avis' that have plagued the catholicity of the Church of England ever since the ordination of women in that Church?

What does this say about the ABC's intention towards the continuation of 'Alternative Episcopal Oversight' for the dissidents, if Women are actually consecrated Bishops in the C.of E.? Presumably Bishop Jonathan Goodall will still be on the staf of Archbishop Justin - and, therefore, possibly representing him in any delegated ministry to dissidents?

And then, of course, there's the other Jonathan - Baker - who, presumably will continue the 'rara avis' newly-invoked tradition, at Fulham.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 1:03am BST

I find several aspects of this appointment a little disturbing. Jonathan's claims to have to 'give up his life' and suggesting that he understands the role of bishop rather better than (by implication) most people in the church suggest a lack of humility that is not attractive.
Perhaps there were occasions when Jonathan had to act as 'Rowan's Rottweiler' in a previous role. And we have once before had (dare i say it) a slightly brusque approach from the bishop of Ebbsfleet. Lets hope for a more inclusive and open approach but I am surprised that the opportunity was not taken to appoint a conservative evangelical to this role. Where is the personal message for that constituency?

Posted by: Andrew Godsall on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 8:01am BST

Yes Ebbsfleet is the titular See of this suffragan bishopric -- all English suffragan and area bishoprics have a titular See.
We look forward to welcoming Fr Jonathan to membership of Forward in Faith and of its Council and National Assembly.

But it is a titular See and there are no 'priests of the See of Ebbsfleet' and no 'people of the See of Ebbsfleet'. Rather, there are parishes whose PCC and incumbent have together petitioned their bishop (i.e. their diocesan bishop) to put in place suitable arrangements). The priest and people remain priests and people of their geographical diocese and there is no particular cohesiveness between the various parishes that have asked their respective bishops for such arrangements.

The words used by Andrew Burnham to try and conjure up an extra-territorial pseudo-diocese were I suggest damaging and ultimately may have helped lead many people down a false alley.

Posted by: Simon Kershaw on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 8:34am BST

Does he have any experience as an incumbent? Does it matter?

Posted by: Simon Taylor on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 9:37am BST

Andrew, it feels like you're reading quite a lot into the announcement - saying that he would "give his life" (not "give up") maybe a little hammy (which is of course so rare amongst clergy /irony off/) but I took it that he was trying to say he would be devoted to those he's trying to serve.

Perhaps we could give him the benefit of the doubt for now?

Posted by: Stuart, Devon on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 4:35pm BST

An interesting appointment indeed. I was surprised to read that Canon Goodall had trained at Wycliffe Hall, not a usual source for Anglo-Catholic clergy.
I agree entirely with Simon Kershaw about the See of Ebbsfleet being purely titular, and having no priests, parishes or people. It is therefore deeply regrettable that Canon Goodall has referred to this conceit in his opening statement on the website. I hope that he will be persuaded to withdraw it when he has had more time to think about it. What he is espousing is alternative episcopal oversight, not extended episcopal care, and only the latter is permitted by the Act of Synod.
I recall that we had a similar debate in these pages some months ago, I think at the time of the translation of the previous +Ebbsfleet to Fulham.

Posted by: Malcolm Dixon on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 4:37pm BST

Canon Godsall seems to take issue with Canon Goodall's statement about giving up his life but I find this reminds me of nothing more than those words from the hymn "Take my life and let it be consecrated Lord to thee". What could be a finer statement than that as the next Bishop of Ebbsfleet prepares to take up his new and demanding ministry?

Posted by: Father David on Saturday, 3 August 2013 at 5:13pm BST

"What he is espousing is alternative episcopal oversight, not extended episcopal care, and only the latter is permitted by the Act of Synod" That surely has been the real problem over the last 12 years...somehow the PEV's began to operate in a manner that was not envisaged when the Act of Synod was passed.

Am I right in thinking that since 1993 25% of C parishes have rescinded C?

Also looking at the Ebbsfleet website I notice an unusually high number of vacancies.Is that because they have been waiting for a new Bishop or is there a problem of attracting suitable clergy?

Posted by: Perry Butler on Sunday, 4 August 2013 at 3:07pm BST

I have no doubt the new bishop of Ebbsfleet has consecrated his life to Christ - and deeply so. It is precisely what he is committing his life to that I have to question - to be a focus of disunity in the church (which is what PEVs actually are); to the incoherent theology of church and episcopacy that underlies the Act of Synod. To gave his life to lead the flourishing and sustaining of those who have opted out of the mainstream life of the CofE because of a view of women and ministry that CofE has made plain it no holds.

Posted by: David on Monday, 5 August 2013 at 7:15am BST

Interesting discussion on the new Bishop of Ebbsfleet's use of language. As I see it, if 'traditionalists' are not simply to be 'tolerated' (that is, until they die off, if they do) but allowed to 'flourish', then it is reasonable that they constitute themselves in various ways as a distinctive group, which would seem to require that they are allowed to say a bit more than 'we are allowed to do this because the diocesan bishop graciously tolerates us'. That said, David Hope's language at Webster's enthronement was distinctly better, and was, I recall, hailed by such diverse individuals as Father David, Laurence and myself.

Posted by: John on Monday, 5 August 2013 at 9:37am BST

David's comment is a typical misrepresentation of the actual situation. To give an example, at a recent diocesan celebration in Wakefield, which is celebrating its 125th birthday, the number of catholic parishes represented at that particular Evensong far outweighed those coming from other parts of the spectrum. It is insidious to talk about opting out as he does, when the reality is that many traditionalists will go as far as their conscience allows in trying to play a full and active part. Where, for instance, do all those Catholic and Evangelical members of the various synods come from? And what about those traditionalist Catholics and Evangelicals working up and down the country within the different diocesan structures. I know of one traditionalist who is the Diocesan Director of Education. Get your facts right please David.

Posted by: Benedict on Monday, 5 August 2013 at 10:01am BST

Perry,

I'm slightly confused about your comment about 'an unusually high number of vacancies' on the Ebbsfleet website. There look to me to be four, which given that the see covers 12 dioceses is hardly an astronomical figure.

Posted by: Hannah on Monday, 5 August 2013 at 10:52am BST

Hannah - I think Perry was looking at the 'Directory of Parishes' page, which has a list of 113 parishes, 19 of which are vacant (about a sixth of the total). Not sure I would call this astronomical either, but it is more than 4!

Posted by: Chris Routledge on Monday, 5 August 2013 at 2:09pm BST

Ah, thanks - I was reading the 'vacancies' page....

Posted by: Hannah on Monday, 5 August 2013 at 7:12pm BST

Am I the only one who wonders why not all 19 parishes listed as vacant would also be listed on the "vacancies" page?

Posted by: Erika Baker on Tuesday, 6 August 2013 at 8:55am BST

Erika,

Vacant parishes will only be listed on the vacancies page, if they are at the point of advertising for a new priest-in-charge. This is not solely up to Ebbsfleet, but is up to the diocese where the parish actually is, and also often the patron. In most dioceses, there is a gap of somewhere between 9 and 18 months between one priest leaving and the next one taking up post. If pastoral reorganisation is pending, or if a post has been extensively advertised and not filled, whichever powers that are might leave it and come back to it.

So there will always be more parishes in vacancy than there are vacancies currently advertised.

Posted by: Hannah on Tuesday, 6 August 2013 at 10:37am BST

Thank you Hannah, I forgot about that!

Posted by: Erika Baker on Tuesday, 6 August 2013 at 1:29pm BST

It's my recollection (I am not able to check at the moment, apologies) that the Directory of Parishes is not just a list of parishes with resolutions in place - it also encompasses those parishes where the vicar has allegedly taken it upon himself never to allow a female priest to minister without this having been formally agreed by the PCC. I am still unclear why such a situation is allowed by diocesan bishops to arise and continue.

Posted by: Pam Smith on Thursday, 8 August 2013 at 9:55am BST

Pam - I believe you are confusing the list on the Ebbsfleet website with the list on the Forward in Faith website. Whilst the former is a list of "Ebbsfleet parishes" the latter is a guide for where those of an FiF persuasion may feel able to worship. This of course does not necessarily require that church to be a member of FiF or to have passed any resolutions.

I quite imagine it is a useful tool for an FiF worshipper when in an unfamiliar town/city.

As regards your last sentence, the general rule is that the Incumbent may ask whomsoever s/he pleases to minister within her/his cure of souls, assuming they have the necessary authorisations and permissions. The diocesan bishops can do little about it.

Posted by: tommiaquinas on Thursday, 8 August 2013 at 3:56pm BST

I've been away...never said the number of vacancies was astronomic...just unusually large. I notice the Ebbsfleet website includes Pusey House, Ascot Priory and a college for retired priests...plus 3 swindon parishes with one priest, 2 Chesterfield, 2 Birmingham ,2 Salisbury...so rather fewer parishes than 113 in reality and the vacancies higher than a sixth.

No answer to my question whether there are 25% fewer C parishes than there were in 1993

Posted by: Perry Butler on Saturday, 10 August 2013 at 9:11am BST

No answer to my question whether there are 25% fewer C parishes than there were in 1993

Does Peter Owen know? I heard this statistic somewhere and would like to know if its true.

PEVs are with us, and as suffragans of the Archbishops will probably be with us for some time but Im interested in the continuing viablity of the situation if C parishes and clergy willing to serve in them declines..... just as I am with the viability ( long term) of the Ordinariate.

Posted by: Perry Butler on Tuesday, 13 August 2013 at 10:37am BST

Perry, the Act of Synod did not come into force until 1994, so the number of "Resolution C" parishes in 1993 must have been zero.

But since 1999 there has been an increase of 25%. Recent issues of Church Statistics give these figures for the number of parishes that have petitioned for extended episcopal ministry (in each case for the beginning of the year).

2012 - 371 - 25% change since 1999
2011 - 382 - 29% change since 1999
2009 - 363 - 23% change since 1999

From the percentage changes (which are positive and therefore represent increases) the 1999 figure must have been 296.

Posted by: Peter Owen on Wednesday, 14 August 2013 at 11:01am BST

To add to Peter's comments: the overall number of parishes with Resolution C in 2012 was 3% of all parishes, and the number of parishes with resolution A was down 8% from 1999, to 765 parishes. So I suspect that what we're seeing is a complex movement within the minority of the church that don't accept WOs - more parishes are now accepting women, but those that don't are either hardening their line or reacting to particular diocesans. In particular, I wonder if more ConEvo parishes are now passing Resolution C, which they hadn't felt the need to previously.

Posted by: magistra on Wednesday, 14 August 2013 at 11:30am BST

Perry,

No - 'astronomical' was my word and I never suggested it was anyone else's. But I do question the claim that there are more than 1/6 in 'reality' in vacancy. There are clergy all over the country, of all church traditions, with responsibility for many more than 2 or 3 parishes. If there is a priest-in-charge the parish is not in vacancy.

Posted by: Hannah on Thursday, 15 August 2013 at 9:50am BST

'the overall number of parishes with Resolution C in 2012 was 3% of all parishes, and the number of parishes with resolution A was down 8% from 1999, to 765 parishes.' (magistra)

So, 3% of parishes are justified in having all these PEV bishops plus suffragans, plus Chichister - all to themselves ?

And costing the Church dear. And I refer to much more than cash, alone.

Posted by: Laurence on Friday, 16 August 2013 at 12:52pm BST
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