Monday, 14 July 2014

General Synod - votes on women bishops

All portions of the legislative package to allow women to be bishops in the Church of England were approved by General Synod this afternoon.

1) Draft Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure (GS 1925B)

On the motion

That the Measure entitled “Bishops and Priests (Consecration and Ordination of Women) Measure” be finally approved

there voted

Bishops 37 in favour, 2 against, 1 recorded abstention
Clergy 162 in favour, 25 against, 4 recorded abstentions
Laity 152 in favour, 45 against, 5 recorded abstentions

and the motion was carried with the necessary two-thirds majorities in all three houses.

2) Draft Amending Canon No. 33 (GS 1926B)

On the motion

That the Canon entitled “Amending Canon No 33” be finally approved

there voted

Bishops 37 in favour, 2 against, 1 recorded abstention
Clergy 164 in favour, 24 against, 3 recorded abstentions
Laity 153 in favour, 40 against, 8 recorded abstentions

and the motion was carried with the necessary two-thirds majorities in all three houses.

3) The motion

That the petition for Her Majesty’s Royal Assent and Licence (GS 1926C) be adopted

was carried on a show of hands.

4) Draft Act of Synod Rescinding the Episcopal Ministry Act of Synod 1993 (GS 1934A)

The motion

That the draft Act of Synod rescinding the Episcopal Ministry Act of Synod 1993 be approved

was carried on a show of hands.

5) The motion

That the Act of Synod rescinding the Episcopal Ministry Act of Synod 1993 be solemnly affirmed and proclaimed an Act of Synod

was carried on a show of hands

Posted by Peter Owen on Monday, 14 July 2014 at 4:30pm BST | TrackBack
You can make a Permalink to this if you like
Categorised as: Church of England | General Synod
Comments

Kudos to James Langstaff, without whom all of this may not have been possible...

I wish I could rejoice more, but it's come so late and still with concessions.

I hope this sounds as ungenerous as it is meant to, but where now for traditionalists? You have lost the argument (again) numerically, theologically and intellectually. Pleading for special dispensations and the appointment of bishops who believe in male headship just makes you and the C of E look ridiculous. You will probably now turn your attention to gay marriage and put as many obstacles as you can in the way of any forthcoming legislation.

In short, I think todays result is no more than a relief, lagging as it does several years behind most other enlightened western churches, and should be celebrated quietly - except by women priests, who are now nearly, but not quite as equal as their male counterparts - who should now make as much noise as they like - unlike the advice they received twenty years ago, when they were told to celebrate quietly - for fear of upsetting traditionalists!

Posted by: stephen Morgan on Monday, 14 July 2014 at 5:14pm BST

> I hope this sounds as ungenerous as it is meant to, but where now for traditionalists?

Taking the Christian church as a whole, they are still vastly in the majority. There are around 2.4 billion Christians in the world, of whom 1.2 billion are Roman Catholics and around 400 million are Eastern and Oriental Orthodox. Therefore, even ignoring traditionalist Anglicans and Lutherans, two thirds of the world's Christians are opposed to the ordination of women and it is those churches who ordain women who are the odd ones out.

(Not a comment on the rightness or wrongness of women's ordination, but a simple and indisputable numerical fact.)

Posted by: RJ on Monday, 14 July 2014 at 7:03pm BST

If the liberals want equal marriage thay must learn from this..until the general Synod House of laity and House of clergy are made more representative, they will not win.

You see the moderate evangelicals ( ala st Johns college, Nottingham etc) helped get the women votes through, but I believe that even the moderates of Fulcrum are 90 per cent sill against moving on homosexuality.

Posted by: robert Ian Williams on Monday, 14 July 2014 at 7:51pm BST

RJ wrote: "two thirds of the world's Christians are opposed to the ordination of women..."

Uh, no. Easily refuted. Your can't claim that just because the leaders of these organizations oppose women priests that the members do. Large numbers in North and South America, Europe, Australia, and Asia are actually supportive of female priests.

A recent poll of Roman Catholics in the United States showed support for women priests at 60% with only 30% opposed. (Quinnipiac, October 2013)

Posted by: Dennis on Monday, 14 July 2014 at 10:11pm BST

Couldn't agree more, Robert, on all counts.

As even the most liberal evangelicals tend to be opposed to gay relationships and equal marriage, campaigners will have to focus on growing liberal and moderate congregations.

It all comes down to money and numbers. Evangelicalism is powerful because it's popular and rich, and could bankrupt the church overnight if it so chose. Until moderates and liberals enjoy a similar power of the pursestrings, then regardless of the merits of their arguments, they'll be ignored.

One fight's over; the other is just beginning.

Posted by: James Byron on Monday, 14 July 2014 at 10:53pm BST

Dennis, as regards the Roman Catholic Church, opinion polls are irrelevant because the Roman Catholic Church has no power to ordain women even if it wished to.

In the Apostolic Letter 'Ordinatio Sacerdotalis' in 1994, Pope John Paul II wrote: "We declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

In a 'responsum ad dubium' (reply to a doubt) explicitly approved by John Paul II and dated October 1995, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued its opinion that the teaching of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis had been "set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium" and accordingly was "to be held definitively, as belonging to the deposit of faith".

It is therefore impossible that there will ever be Roman Catholic women priests.

Posted by: RJ on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 12:48pm BST

I don't pretend to know much about the RC church, but why do Pope JP11, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Magisterium have the final say on these matters? They are (were) all men, aren't they?
'It is therefore impossible.'

Nothing's impossible - haven't you heard the song?

Posted by: Stephen Morgan on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 1:32pm BST

> I don't pretend to know much about the RC church, but why do Pope JP11, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the Magisterium have the final say on these matters?

Stephen, I'm sorry, but - whether or not you approve of it - they just do! That's the way the Roman Catholic Church works. Have you never heard of Infallibility, and, in particular, of the infallibility of the ordinary and universal Magisterium?

I repeat: it is impossible that there will ever be Roman Catholic women priests.

Posted by: RJ on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 3:42pm BST

Answering Stephen's question.....

It all goes back to Luke ch 22, where Jesus in addressing the Apostles is recorded as stating that Satan desires to sift them like wheat, but Jesus has prayed for Simon (Peter) and he will confirm the brethren with an unfailing faith.

So there Stephen in embryo is the doctrine....
Popes can cock up pastorally..make off the cuff statements (like the current impulsive latin American on the chair of Peter), but when acting in their official and defining teaching office, the Holy Spirit protects them from error.

Without this promise, Christianity would be reduced to a religion, like modern Judaism..one of varying interpretations.

Posted by: Robert ian Williams on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 3:51pm BST

Thanks for that, RIW
I had, of course, heard of 'infallibility,' I just hadn't realised how infallible it was!

I have recently read a History of the Popes, and obviously failed to notice the fine distinction between their 'pastoral' behaviour and their 'official defining and teaching' office.

I think we will have to agree to differ! As Saint Bob says, 'Most Likely You Go Your Way And I'll Go Mine.'

Posted by: Stephen Morgan on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 5:57pm BST

I suppose that it is impossible until it happens. At which point the majority will talk of doctrinal development and discernment, and the traditionalists will sulk and despair. And before you assume which side God is on you might question that conclusion. Perhaps even ask yourself if God is able to correct an error of two thousand years. Impossible? Words like that must be comforting for traditionalists. As I said, it is impossible until it happens. And the clock is ticking.

Posted by: Dennis on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 6:46pm BST

> Perhaps even ask yourself if God is able to correct an error of two thousand years.

Dennis, the whole point is that if you believe (as the Roman Catholic Church teaches) that the Holy Spirit will keep the Church free from error, it cannot possibly be an error that women cannot be ordained as priests. God cannot contradict Himself. Nor can he correct Himself, because He cannot err!

Posted by: RJ on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 7:44pm BST

Yes , the Church discerns what is set in stone and what can be changed..for instance , women covering their heads was dispensed with.That's part of the Church's power to bind and loose.

Posted by: robert ian wiilliams on Tuesday, 15 July 2014 at 10:29pm BST

"Have you never heard of Infallibility, and, in particular, of the infallibility of the ordinary and universal Magisterium?"

Indeed, and they are infallible only (as RC apologists are forever reminding us) under finite circumstances (as Dennis says, impossible until it happens!)

Posted by: Geoff on Thursday, 17 July 2014 at 4:26am BST
Post a comment









Remember personal info?

Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.