Saturday, 26 July 2014

opinion

Yasmine Hafiz Huffington Post ‘Bibliotheca’ Bible Project Blows Up On Kickstarter With Chapterless Bible

Jonathan Aigner 15 Reasons Why We Should Still Be Using Hymnals
[Many of these reasons do not apply in the Church of England, where hymnbooks are normally words-only.]

Linda Woodhead OUP blog The vote for women bishops

J John has been interviewing Justin Welby for God & Politics in the UK “I just knew that Jesus was there and I had met him” – interviewing Justin Welby.

On Religion has been speaking to Professor Linda Woodhead about the challenges and opportunities facing religious studies in Higher Education: Expert Interview: Professor Linda Woodhead.

Posted by Peter Owen on Saturday, 26 July 2014 at 11:00am BST | TrackBack
You can make a Permalink to this if you like
Categorised as: Opinion
Comments

A recent chapterless edition of the New Testament and of Genesis-Kings already exists: http://www.biblicaeurope.com/community-bible-experience

It does not look as splendid as the "Bibliotheca" edition but is a lot cheaper. Those of my parishoners who used this NT during Lent 2013 loved it.

Posted by: Thomas Renz on Saturday, 26 July 2014 at 11:36am BST

With regard to the article about hymnals - it's not just hymns. Many congregations use a particular mass setting, like Addington or New English, and music is never provided. What does this say to new members or visitors? I think we rather expect them to just "deal with it" while we sing our version of the Gloria... It doesn't make for a very good ministry of hospitality, does it?

Posted by: Nick Nawrockyi on Saturday, 26 July 2014 at 2:55pm BST

In our parish, the "bulletin" as we call it contains the entire text of the service with the full music of the hymns to be sung by the congregation, including the Gloria, "Holy Holy Holy," and any other parts of the service to be sung.

(It's a "bulletin" because the front matter is always announcements and advisories of parish events and services.)

Posted by: Pat O'Neill on Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 2:18am BST

Thanks to Linda Woodhead for speaking sensibly about the significance of the vote for women bishops. So many people today lose track of the distinction between a religion and a sect. Religions proclaim the love of God for God's creatures. Sects claim that God's love extends only to a few, and that they uniquely know whom God favors. Nonsense!

Posted by: jnwall on Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 4:14am BST

From the interview with J John...

"we have to be rather cautious about people laying down the law from on high."

Justin Welby

Yeah, right. Am I alone in thinking all this 'we're just a lovely big family and I have no authority over anyone, and the Bishops all ignore me, honest they do' to be complete hooey in the light of the recent Pastoral Statement and the Anglican Covenant? (which isn't dead yet, despite its defeat in the Church of England).

"it [the Church] sets an example of love in diversity and in the community"

Justin Welby

My initial response to this quote would not get past the moderators. To imagine that the Church of England has set any sort of example to the community in respect of gender equality (39 years late with opt-outs) or sexuality equality is, to be charitable, delusional, or, to be less so, a plain lie.

Posted by: Laurence Cunnington on Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 11:29am BST

Do look in on the Canon J.John interviews. I have just spent time looking at his interview with The Vicar of Baghdad, Canon Andrew White. Now here is a Christian who believes in his calling to Love people with an outrageous indiscriminate Love - the Love of God. His love of all people - including his Muslim neighbours is radiant testimony to the Imago Dei.

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 12:23pm BST

Linda says that we have discussed women Bishops for 20 years.Professor Lampe raised the matter in 1967 in a motion in Church Assembly, which I supported.Later the concept of women bishops was put on one side as we concentrated on securing women priests. Then it was brought to the fore again for 20 years hard argument but the idea was on the table for for 47 years to my knowledge.

Posted by: Jean Mayland on Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 7:32pm BST

[Many of these reasons do not apply in the Church of England, where hymnbooks are normally words-only.] Well, from the point of view of an American (where everybody's hymnals include the music), that explains a lot about the Church of England.

Posted by: William Moorhead on Sunday, 27 July 2014 at 10:36pm BST

"[When there is]... a particular mass setting... [for which]music is never provided. What does this say to new members or visitors? I think we rather expect them to just 'deal with it'... It doesn't make for a very good ministry of hospitality, does it?" (Nick Nawrockyi)

"... 'in the Church of England... hymnbooks are normally words-only'... that explains a lot about the Church of England." (William Moorhead)

Nick's additional reflection is interesting (as is William's sneer for very different reasons). But isn't there another side to this coin? Giving a stranger printed material which includes a significant amount of musical notation may 'say' to at least some strangers 'you need a much higher level of musical literacy than most of your neighbours to be welcome here'?

Posted by: Peter Mullins on Monday, 28 July 2014 at 3:33am BST

Words or words and music, 'mass settings' ... this discussion is missing the most obvious fact that most of visitors coming into our churches (in the UK) in my experience don't know the songs or hymns we are singing, full stop. This is a real dilemma. How does a church worship and welcome at the same time in the present context?

Posted by: David Runcorn on Monday, 28 July 2014 at 8:25pm BST

"Words or words and music, 'mass settings' ... this discussion is missing the most obvious fact that most of visitors coming into our churches (in the UK) in my experience don't know the songs or hymns we are singing, full stop. This is a real dilemma. How does a church worship and welcome at the same time in the present context? "

I think there are several ways:

1. On the days when you are most likely to have visitors (Christmas, Easter), use the hymns most likely to be known to outsiders and/or the ones your own congregation knows best. It's easier to sing along with a group if the group is comfortable singing in the first place.

2. As the hymn is starting, have the organist (or whatever instrument is being used), play an entire verse and chorus as the introduction, so those unfamiliar with the song can at least try to match the lyrics to the melody in their heads. (Our organist does this all the time.)

3. Make it clear to the newcomer that--whatever level of participation he is comfortable with--he is welcome. Just listening and enjoying the music is acceptable.

Posted by: Pat O'Neill on Monday, 28 July 2014 at 10:31pm BST

"this discussion is missing the most obvious fact that most of visitors coming into our churches (in the UK) in my experience don't know the songs or hymns we are singing, full stop."

I come from a country where every
hymn book comes with the music of all the hymns and every pew sheet introducing a new song has at least the voice written in music.

It's not necessary to be able to read music fluently, you can tell from whether the notes move up or down how the tune develops, and by the third chorus that aid is usually sufficient to help you sing along.

Posted by: Erika Baker on Tuesday, 29 July 2014 at 8:57am BST

Just got round to reading the transcript of Professor Linda Woodhead's interview. Fascinating!
I once had the privilege of teaching an introductory course on world religions . It was an interesting experience. The college was wrestling with the transition from a department of Christian theology to a department of religious studies. Woodhead's comments on departments are most interesting.

The explosion of disciplines studying religious issues is astounding. It's a bit of a leap, but what is happening in academia has some touch stones with parish ministry where the pastor is something of a teacher of religion. I'm just a humble parish priest, now retired, who spent 35 years in parishes. I tried to see part of what I did on the analogy of the general practitioner. The family physician defers to the expertise of specialists e.g. the GP defers to the Ophthalmologist who defers to the retinal specialist. As a preacher/teacher one defers to practitioners of specialized disciplines in theology as well as the social sciences and humanities.

The analogy has limits. Medicine has agreed upon diagnostic procedures, treatments and management strategies that evolve with new medicine. In religion, one finds an array specialists advocating very different conclusions about the same sources. The academy has academic freedom while ordained persons are accountable to corporate believing. Hence, the challenge of the knowledge explosion is just as great, but the conflict between one's own intellectual integrity and what one owes to the tradition one vows to serve can be even more exacting.

Posted by: Rod Gillis on Tuesday, 29 July 2014 at 6:53pm BST

Erika is absolutely right that, even with minimal knowledge of music, people can see when the tune goes up and when it goes down if basic melody is provided, and that is surely helpful.

Posted by: Flora Alexander on Tuesday, 29 July 2014 at 7:05pm BST
Post a comment









Remember personal info?

Please note that comments are limited to 400 words. Comments that are longer than 400 words will not be approved.

Cookies are used to remember your personal information between visits to the site. This information is stored on your computer and used to refill the text boxes on your next visit. Any cookie is deleted if you select 'No'. By ticking 'Yes' you agree to this use of a cookie by this site. No third-party cookies are used, and cookies are not used for analytical, advertising, or other purposes.