Tuesday, 14 November 2017

Some positive responses to the new schools guidance

There has been a huge media reaction to yesterday’s publication by the Church of England of revised guidance on tackling HBT bullying. Much of it demonstrates precisely why such guidance is necessary. Here are some further helpful articles.

Archbishop of Canterbury Tackling homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying

Nigel Genders Why our guidance on combating bullying is part of our vision for education which is also available here.

Grace Dent Angry about trans education in schools? This is why you’re wrong

Suzanne Moore The Daily Mail’s ‘boys in tiaras’ story is designed to manufacture rage

Guardian Share your experiences of gender-based bullying – and your solutions

Times Educational Supplement Pupils should be allowed to explore their sexuality, says Church of England

Posted by Simon Sarmiento on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 10:13am GMT | TrackBack
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Categorised as: Church of England
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Grace Dent's standfirst:

"It takes a dark mind to hear news that the church would wish less children to be bullied into self-harming, suicide or merely leaving education, and greet this pleasant news with fetid fury"

Can I admit to being a bad person, and while I was agreeing with every word of that, I was nonetheless thinking "FEWER! FEWER! FEWER!"

Posted by: Interested Observer on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 11:03am GMT

When non-Christian journalists like Suzanne Moore seek to assure smug Guardian readers of their liberal credentials they are always certain to describe clergy as being "men in frocks". This hackneyed description totally undermines her article by showing silly prejudice. Would she describe men in other cultures who don't wear a suit and tie to be dressed like women?

Posted by: FrDavidH on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 12:50pm GMT

'positive' responses to the new schools guidance'

Let's be clear. I don't think anyone on the accompanying thread was criticising the HTB guidelines. What galled a lot of them and me was the rank hypocrisy of an Abp and HOB who do not practise what they preach. (Leaving aside that nearly everybody does not need the Church of England to advise them on whether it is all right for children to dress up in any clothes they may choose?)

Posted by: stephen morgan on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 2:20pm GMT

It's not often I agree with Melanie Phillips but writing in The Times this morning she has composed an excellent and most perceptive article entitled "Church is sowing the seeds of its destruction
By embracing gender fluidity and gay rights, Anglicans are capitulating to secularism."
"good disagreement" has never won a single convert for Christ, in fact it encourages people like Lorna Ashworth and Gavin Ashenden to retire from the fray

Posted by: Father David on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 3:32pm GMT

"By embracing gender fluidity and gay rights, Anglicans are capitulating to secularism"

So rigid gender roles are now a salvation issue? How foolish of the Council of Trent not to make that clear.

Cultural Conservatives are always keen to seen any change as decay, and to make any social change they disapprove of a proxy for the end times. It's not that long ago that churches, and rather more churches than will now admit it, had a down on inter-racial marriage. Now that outright racism isn't a good look anymore, they are switching to other places where society is moving on, but a church can erect a hill-top fort to defend. Now it's a particularly naive and one-dimensional set of gender stereotypes that are the most important thing for their church to defend again, what, hordes of men who like to paint their nails?

Posted by: Interested Observer on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 5:02pm GMT

What would the Bard say (we can guess....) with his young male actors dressed up as girls (who sometimes cross-dress to pretend that they are boys ......) O dear,O dear

Posted by: Sara MacVane on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 5:15pm GMT

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Father David, I have always believed that "by embracing gender fluidity" we are embracing the very nature of God.

Posted by: Simon Dawson on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 6:14pm GMT

""good disagreement" has never won a single convert for Christ, in fact it encourages people like Lorna Ashworth and Gavin Ashenden to retire from the fray

Posted by: Father David on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 3:32pm GMT"

But is that not a Blessing in itself?

Posted by: Father Ron Smith on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 8:08pm GMT

'"good disagreement" has never won a single convert for Christ'. And how could you possibly know? It has been a highly significant process for some.

Posted by: David Runcorn on Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 9:56pm GMT

Father Ron, I wouldn't personally regard it as "a Blessing" for anyone to leave the Church. Blessings surely come when more and more are gathered into the net of Christ's love.
Far too often on this august blog we find certain people positively encouraging others to up sticks and go - simply because they disagree with their own subjective point of view. I find this, what might be called, ecclesiastic cleansing to be most distressing and not to be encouraged in any way, shape or form.

Posted by: Father David on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 7:26am GMT

David Runcorn - prove me otherwise - names and addresses please of "Good Disagreement" converts. There seem to me to be plenty leaving the C of E as a result of what might contradictorily be called "good disagreement".

Posted by: Father David on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 9:05am GMT

From my experience, I suspect that Good Disagreement may have enabled some who were on the verge of leaving the C of E to stick around a bit longer. However, their patience may be running out.

Posted by: cassandra on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 9:46am GMT

"There seem to me to be plenty leaving the C of E as a result of what might contradictorily be called "good disagreement".

But is it "plenty" leaving the C of E, or very few leaving very noisily?

Posted by: Simon Dawson on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 1:27pm GMT

Father David The claim was yours. And I asked how you knew. Still seems a reasonable question.

Posted by: David Runcorn on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 1:37pm GMT

"Far too often on this august blog we find certain people positively encouraging others to up sticks and go - simply because they disagree with their own subjective point of view" @ Father David

I didn't realise my sexual orientation was a point of view. I live and learn.

Posted by: Fr Andrew on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 2:43pm GMT

What may be the problem is that the matter is for some not just disagreement but a matter of life and death. In that case disagreement is beside the point and talk of good disagreement is just another flavour of cool aid but cool aid all the same, leading to death. Personally, for the life of me, I can't see why conservatives could possibly see it as a matter of death for themselves but fail to see there is abundant evidence that for those who are gay it can be, is and has been a matter of real death. In any case, it seems the Abps' position is crumbling fast and about to inundate them long before the teaching document and Lambeth arrive. Fascinating to watch from Canada, where it looks like history repeating itself.

Posted by: Garry Lovatt on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 2:47pm GMT

"Good Disagreement" was and is a CoE buzz word aimed at people who are already churched. It is not aimed at people who are yet to be converted to giving church a(nother) try.

But the concept of Good Disagreement is being transformed to "Radical Inclusion" by our Archbishops. Future attendance figures may just possibly show what effect it has when the church finally and genuinely includes everyone.

That Gavin Ashenden no longer wishes to be included because he cannot categorically exclude others is sad, but is his personal choice.
Lorna Ashworth has not left the CoE. She stepped down from Archbishop's Council and from General Synod, but remains very much an active member in her parish church.

Posted by: Erika Baker on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 2:54pm GMT

My partner was born male-bodied. Because of bullying, she received no education after age 14. If people don't understand why guidance was needed - and action not just guidance - they might want to take the time to talk to those who have been affected.

Posted by: Kate on Wednesday, 15 November 2017 at 5:21pm GMT

Do we have the scientific data on post transgender surgery and its consequences? I gather this is far from a uniform positive. I would welcome the scientific findings.

Posted by: CRS on Thursday, 16 November 2017 at 4:54pm GMT
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