I met Richard Kirker of LGCM in 1977 or 78 (shortly after it started up I guess), I shared my home with a man who is homosexual for some years, and have several friends who are homosexual (some in relationships, some abstainant).
But I have been convinced beyond reasonable doubt for a long time that homosexual sexual relationships are not compatible with the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.
Does that count as "listening" ? .... or do "Inclusive" Church really mean "listening until you accept we are right" ?
Listening is always good, never bad. The more raw data & experience we have to go on, the better equipped we are. This is one ingredient of open-mindedness. Another is that you havent a clue, before you begin, of what conclusion you will come to. If either party is assuming that anything 'must' be concluded, they are thereby wrong.
Yes, mostly. But Open-Mindedness doesn't mean not knowing what we think. Nor does it mean rejecting what we formerly believed because someone else doesn't agree. It means being prepared to honestly consider NEW information, experiences etc, and make changes to what we believe if justified.
But IC et al aren't bringing anything new, just going over the same ground.
The real problem IC have is that, having listened for a long time, thought through the implications of the concept of sexual orientation, considered people's experiences, and having studied the theology of the biblical texts in the light of all this, many of us are convinced that Inclusive Church are wrong!
Dave, Well, some of us have gone through the same process and concluded that IC is correct, too. So, what can we realistically *do* about this ?
My experience is that the vast majority of mainstream and "progressive" Anglicans would allow you to be part of the AC as well (not all, mind you, but enough that this minority's opinion wouldn't matter). But what about you ? Are people with my viewpoint allowed to be "in communion" with you ? or are we to be expurgated ?
Oh, and to Christopher Shell's comment above: Who are you and what have you done with Dr. Shell ?!? Sorry, couldn't resist ;) <-- humor alert
Ahh but, according to the liberal model, you're supposed to either have listened, thought things through and therefore agree with them, or to disagree because of hate, prejudice and ignorance.
As for the question of whether or not I should be allowed to continue to be in the AC, because I think it is sinful for men to have sex with men.. That liberals even entertain such questions shows how narrow and fundamentalist many of them have become.
Surely the attitude we should all have is that people are Christians if they believe and trust in God through Jesus Christ, and show it by being baptised and allowing themselves to be taught to obey everything He has commanded us (well, at least try to) ?
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