Comments: Saturday opinions

Giles Fraser is right. Even now, amidst the cosy sweaters of HTB, terrorist plotting is rife.

Posted by Christopher Shell at Saturday, 17 June 2006 at 9:04am BST

Giles Fraser wrote: "... I secretly admire the sheer determination of the phenomenon of Holy Trinity, Brompton. None the less, when I see great crowds of people filled with passionate religious zeal, I feel a sickness in the pit of my stomach."

This is a strangely subjective way to judge a phenomenon that many see as one of the main things that God is doing in the CofE and other denominations from free church to Roman Catholic. Not all zeal is bad (!) and personally I would rather have an enthusiastically worshipping congregation than a glum one. Maybe Giles needs to see beyond his own fears about some of these churches... HTB folk I've met seemed balanced yet keen, and they do some very good barbeques!!

Posted by Dave at Saturday, 17 June 2006 at 10:47am BST

To analyse his statement: 'passion ' and 'zeal' are not bad but neutral: it depends what one is passionate/zealous about. But normally they are positive things: ask any teacher (or pupil). And whenever they are positive, they are *very* positive. So GF is speaking of something that is normally very positive as though it were negative: calling black white.
He needs to define what he is saying. Is he saying blandness is good? Or that it is good to be ineffectual? Or apathetic?
'Religious' is an inapplicable word, which would be disowned by pretty much every HTB member, evangelical, charismatic, pentecostal, free church person, you name it.
Make mental note: don't achieve any great things for the gospel, lest we receive the wrath of Fraser.
Whenever I have come across HTB people they have been so nice, and thoughtful to boot.
This makes me think that GF is so dependent on his preconceptions and ideologies that he does not see what is staring him in the face. One thing that is *not* staring him in the face, as any 6 year old could tell him, is an HTB terrorist 'cell'. That is not what 'cell' churches are all about.

Posted by Christopher Shell at Saturday, 17 June 2006 at 12:25pm BST

I liked Cottingham's article, and pondered that the factions that seek to suppress evidence and stifle diversity have forgotten that God has simple and clear values e.g. referring to the bible as the Book of Truth.

I quite liked the article on dialectal Anglicanism and agreed with Fraser's concerns about well-motivated and organised factions. It left me cogitating and contemplating limitations in the model. Some might be making an assumption in that the "new paradigm" is fully embrassed by all the previous players, but that is not necessarily the case.

For example, the confederates of the United States lost the war because they had failed to embrace the previous reform of freeing their slaves, and thus their slaves became their enemies. Similarly, in chemistry not all source product becomes integrated into the new compound. For example when you form a large salt crystal out of supersaturated solution, some salt still remains suspended in the original fluid and is discarded when the pure crystal is elevated out of the solution.

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Saturday, 17 June 2006 at 10:08pm BST
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