Comments: Columbus: further reports

Steven Bates claims: "Only a minority of its 38 provinces ordain women at all, though the Americans have now done so for more than 30 years and the CofE for more than a decade."


This chart indicates that 25 provinces, fully two thirds of the 37 provinces responding, ordain women to the priesthood and an additional 3 ordain only to the deaconate. Only 9 provinces have no provision for the ordination of women.

Posted by ruidh at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 6:52pm BST

To me Lionel Deimel's piece here, clearly enunciates what is at stake at GC ( as did his other, longer piece. Really Anglican writing at its best).

I am particularly moved as an lgbt person by his refusal to see THC sacrifice others for its beliefs or comfort. ( We are like pin-cushions have been offered up so often by the C of E!)

BUT DO read the whole piece !

Posted by LaurenceRoberts at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 7:31pm BST

Thank you for the encouragement to read Lionel Deimel's article. It is inspirational, clear, and worthy of wide circulation. If only the AbC were as articulate and honest about the nature of Anglicanism the Primates, Prelates, Priest and People of the churches which make up the Anglican Communion would be lead into a living and loving expression of the Christian Gospel that could challenge rather than scandalise the secular world.

Posted by Anglicanus at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 8:51pm BST

Lionel Deimel piece was awful. Doing what god calls you to do?

Look the Spong-ites can do whatever they want with the Church (and itappears they are doing just that) but please don't pretend God has anything to do with it. In fact, it takes a serious intellectual exercise in circumventing the word of God to do what they are doing.

They may be affirming Anglicanism but they have turned their backs on Christianity.

Posted by Ryan at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 9:53pm BST

Laurence Robert: Thank you for the compliment on the other comment somewhere on here.
Lionel really does speak from an American Experience. Culturally we are different from the Global South. In the last 20 years we have seen: the genocide in Rwanda, Idi Amin in Uganda, Civil unrest and military govts in Nigeria, one of the most corrupt governments in the world in Zimbabwe not to mention the AIDS Epidemic and a host of other maladies.

Most American's and First world countries have even seen a stoning as is done in some parts of Nigeria (not to mention living through a genocide). I think expecting us to live life from a global south perspective is simply not possible.

I am disappointed by the meddling of ABC. He couldn't just say congradulations and I look forward to working with +Schori!

Posted by Robert Christian at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 10:09pm BST

Bates misleads when he says that +Katharine Jefferts Schori's record as a parish priest. She has never been a 'rector,' which is the priest in charge of a congregation that is not a mission congregation. But she has served as vicar of a Spanish-speaking mission congregation, and is experienced (though not as experienced as other nominees) as a priest in congregational ministry.

Posted by Sarah Dylan Breuer at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 10:14pm BST

Too bad she doesen't believe in the ressurection or an afterlife. You'd think those would be key Christian doctrines...

Posted by Ryan at Tuesday, 20 June 2006 at 10:24pm BST

"I don't await permission from the rest of the Communion", says bishop Ackerman :----

The election of Bishop Jefferts Schori as Presiding Bishop and chief consecrator of the bishops of The Episcopal Church presents a challenge to the “sacramental certainty” of the Church, Bishop Ackerman said.

“The Bible, the ecumenical councils, the Vincentian canons” are founts of “our knowledge of sacramental certainty” and should not be interpreted through “sociological constructs” based on American “exceptionalism,” he argued.

“I think that the outcry internationally will be rather significant” from the election, he noted, but added that it would be “very unwise to do anything precipitous. If I truly believed I was a member of a Protestant denomination, I would say to people that we would have to act immediately.

“But my ecclesiology is that we are part of a world wide Anglican communion. I don’t await permission from the rest of the Communion,” Bishop Ackerman said, “rather I recognize that consensus is an extraordinary component in the way we do Anglican theology. It’s just that the Episcopal Church doesn’t seem to be aware of that.”

Is this an own goal ?

Given that he is criticing the GC for not consulting th AC !!

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Wednesday, 21 June 2006 at 12:01am BST

Ryan: Actually, and I have it on good authority she does believe in an afterlife. Because someone reads +Spong or Borg or Crossan doesn't mean you believe everything. +Spong has some very good points concerning social justice. The National Cathedral has a presentation by him you can watch on windows media. There is not one time that +Spong mentions no Heaven, Hell or afterlife. We can have good dialogue with people without agreeing on every little point.

Posted by Robert Christian at Wednesday, 21 June 2006 at 4:51am BST

Does anyone have any idea what Alternative Primatial Oversight would actually look like? Or is this just an almost meaningless symbolic gesture? As far as I've ever heard the only sacramental resposibility the PB has is to be chief consecrator, and past PBs have delegated consecrations to other bishops for any number of reasons.


Posted by Jon at Wednesday, 21 June 2006 at 7:26am BST

Robert Christian,

"I have it on good authority she does believe in an afterlife."

Could you summarise her beliefs? Does she believe in Heaven? Does she believe in Hell? Does our Lord Jesus Christ have anything to do with all this? I heard a clip of her being interviewed on the Radio and when the interviewer asked her point blank "What happenes when we die?" she gave a waffling answer.

"+Spong has some very good points concerning social justice."

Spong does not believe in God, maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but I think such a belief precludes you from having any meaningful position in a Christian Church made up of Bible believing Christians.

"We can have good dialogue with people without agreeing on every little point."

Of course we can. Except this isn't about fussing over trifles. Spongites & Christians hold such radically different beliefs that they can't even be considered of the same religion.

Posted by Ryan at Wednesday, 21 June 2006 at 1:18pm BST

Robert Christian,

+Schori does NOT believe in an afterlife. Download the 6/19 radio show from this site, and listen from 32:20 on. Is that the sort of response a Christian bishop would give? She is a non-theist like her mentor +Spong.

Within a few years, Episcopalians will need to be re-baptized to join a Christian sect... because no denomination will recognize Episcopalians as believers.

Posted by Consanescerion at Thursday, 22 June 2006 at 7:35am BST
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