Comments: Truro Church and the Nigerian consecration

Then its Truro Church which should 'go somewhere'. You can't have a bishop of one church as a vicar within another, particularly when the reason for the bishopric is dislike of the other!

Posted by Merseymike at Monday, 21 August 2006 at 10:14am BST

What part of this don't they get?
Am I missing something or is this a matter of not realizing that they really don't have the authority to do this?

Posted by John Robison at Monday, 21 August 2006 at 4:36pm BST

Is it a violation of the C&C of TEC for Minns to be both? If so, who in TEC is going to take him to task for it and why shouldn't he be deposed by +Peter Lee? When is 815 going to stop being so silent about all of this business? Hello, I don't get it but then maybe I'm not supposed to.

Posted by Richard III at Monday, 21 August 2006 at 7:17pm BST

I think I may have found my answer.
Note the similarity in snail mail adresses on these two web pages:

http://www.canaconvocation.org/contact/
http://www.trurochurch.org/content.asp?contentid=565

It seems that Truro Church is being set up to be +Minn's cathedral.

Posted by Johhn Robison at Monday, 21 August 2006 at 8:11pm BST

This is just another example of the power of the creative imagination at work. If you don't like the rules in force, simply act with great conviction as if things were otherwise. You may distract enough people so that they will believe your reworking of reality and you will get what you want.

Among the mythical beings that have been conjured up in this way are the universal jurisdiction of the Archbishop of Canterbury and alternative primatial oversight. It's really quite amazing how many people simply gloss over the fact that the emperor has no clothes and argue instead as to how magnificent his robes are.

Posted by Nick Finke at Monday, 21 August 2006 at 8:38pm BST

Nick said " If you don't like the rules in force, simply act with great conviction as if things were otherwise. "
This technique was used at the time of the Philadelphia eleven. it was altogether predictable that this would return.
So here's a guide to how to react when rules a broken:
"A prophetic action" means I agree with it.
"They should be deposed for breaking the canons" means I do not agree with this action

Posted by Obadiahslope at Tuesday, 22 August 2006 at 12:51am BST

Nick Finke has said it better than I could: "It's really quite amazing how many people simply gloss over the fact that the emperor has no clothes and argue instead as to how magnificent his robes are."

The 'Bible-whacker' folks have reduced episcopacy to the level of a 'used car' for which people shop around. Mynns, by his actions in Nigeria, has violated the discipline of TEC, which he vowed to uphold at ordination. Let him be deposed. Let PB Griswold declare in no uncertain terms that ++Rowan has no jurisdiction in the good old USA. ++Rowan is not a Roman pope with a universal primacy. ++Rowan Cantuar, butt out of General Convention! You only disgrace the office of Cantuar by aligning yourself with those who no longer recognize ECUSA's Constitution and Canons in violation of their ordination vows.

Posted by John Henry at Tuesday, 22 August 2006 at 1:48am BST

Is it a violation of the C&C of TEC for Minns to be both? If so, who in TEC is going to take him to task for it and why shouldn't he be deposed by +Peter Lee? When is 815 going to stop being so silent about all of this business? Hello, I don't get it but then maybe I'm not supposed to.

Let's assume that Bp. Lee deposed Minns. Let's suppose further that the vestry of Truro parish told +Lee to go pound sand. What to do next? Apparently Bp. Lee has ruled out using the courts to get Minns out of Truro. What other leverage does he have?

On the other hand, Bp. Lee will be attending the meeting in NYC early next month. Perhaps some restraint today will give him some valuable credibility next month.

In the long run, he could make it somewhat difficult for Truro to replace Minns by witholding consent to an election of a rector for as long as Bp. Minns continues to reside at Truro. This is an situation where a long-term strategy will probably pay off best.

Posted by ruidh at Tuesday, 22 August 2006 at 1:58am BST

We should not jump to premature conclusions. +Lee and (then) Minns+ met on Saturday August 12 and agreed that a joint statement would be released before month's end. For +Lee's letter of August 13 see: http://www.thediocese.net/News_services/pressroom/newsrelease6.html

Posted by Andrew at Tuesday, 22 August 2006 at 2:28pm BST

Obadiahslope quoted: "If you don't like the rules in force, simply act with great conviction as if things were otherwise." and said:
"This technique was used at the time of the Philadelphia eleven. it was altogether predictable that this would return."

No it wasn't used at Philadelphia. The Bishops at Philadelphia consciously did what was not permitted according to the Canons, because they knew it was right.

These people do what they know is wrong, claiming that it is according to the Canons.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Tuesday, 22 August 2006 at 3:54pm BST

If Minns was moved to accept his call as missionary bishop, surely it was because he felt pity on the Nigerian Christians stranded in a strange land, like sheep without a shepherd. That being the case, shouldn't he immediately resign his comfortable and well-paid position at Truro and go where his flock is? And if he doesn't, doesn't that suggest that this was never about the flock at all?
And what about Truro? If ever there was a church that needed an extended interim period in which to reflect on its own identity and needs -- as distinct from those of its long-time rector -- before calling a new priest, this is it. Or are Minns and the vestry afraid that left to their own devices, the parish might decide that they don't want another Minns?

Posted by Steve Lusk at Wednesday, 23 August 2006 at 5:22pm BST

Congratulations, Steve Lusk, on your analysis of the situation in Truro, VA.

It is all 'smoke and mirrors' about Mr. Minns's alternative episcopal oversight of dramatized Nigerian Anglicans resident in the U.S.A. Why, then, doesn't he give up the perks of the Truro rectorship?

His congregants at Truro in transition to a new rector need space for their discernment under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Doesn't Mr. Minns believe in the power of the Holy Spirit guiding faithful Christians during an interim? Why does he have to quench the Spirit by his 'controlling' presence?

Give them enough rope and the reasserters inevitably always 'hang themselves'. Among the majority of Episcopalians the Network folks have no credibility at all.

Posted by John Henry at Wednesday, 23 August 2006 at 10:47pm BST

So many who are responding to this information know nothing of the man. Martyn Minns is a man of deep conviction and wants only for the adherence to doctrine. If ever there was a man who was trying to further the word of Jesus Christ it is this fine individual. Please take the time to look deeper into this situation and you will come to understand this.

Posted by Don at Monday, 18 December 2006 at 3:29am GMT

This is not really about doctrine or the Gospel. It stems from a simplistic and deeply divided American culture that wants on one side Washington styled answers (who sit in the pews of Truro and Falls Church for goodness sake: the state department and the pentagon) and those who trust in dialogue within the on-going evolution of revelation represented in both scripture and a living tradition. Frank Griswold's call to "conversation" does not appeal to fundamentalists. Let them go -- union with Rwanda and Nigeria is skin deep (pardon the irony). Do they want to move there, minister to the trauma and bloodshed induced by division and acrimony there. Most likely not. Our Nigerian brother is still angsting over colonialism. He has the right; but we don't need to fuel or fund his campaign.
Harold Bloom wrote that American Christians want a Jesus who is more American than Christian.
Let Evangelicals be evangelical; but may the US Episcopal Church be a bigger home to a more generous reading of the WORD: which as any translator knows is not so simply pinned down.

Ah Griswold, Ah Rowan rise up.

Posted by frances at Sunday, 25 February 2007 at 5:31pm GMT
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