Comments: opinion collection

Theo Hobson makes his point simply and clearly. What a relief to read something on Anglicanism which is readily explicable !

Honesty is the key.

Sizable numbers of us have been crying out for honesty and integrity from the C of E for a long time. Dennis Nadin started about 30 years ago --remember REACH ?

The double talk of Issues and of the Windsor Report beggar belief.

When Eames introduced the WR on national TV., saying 'the Church must not be homophobic', it was clear to us all how anti-gay the Windsor Report and it s basic assumptions really is. -- When did you last hear a rumpus because a bishop loves a woman ? --or even 3 in succession.

We know all that leading evangelicals and 'conseratives' say one thing, while having one wife after another. And leaving one lot of children to found another scion in their name.

Theo Hobson's point about what we are doing to our Muslim neighbours is very important. It all comes down to mindfulness and honesty....

Posted by laurence roberts at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 1:49pm BST

Ref. the Guardian's "Face to Face" column listed above.

You must have read a different column to me Simon. Whilst the Song of Songs was mentioned in passing, the column seemed more to be praising the examples of same sex love mentioned in Hebrew scriptures.

An obvious clue to that subject is the column's heading, and I quote, "Lesbians and Gays are the Bible's greatest lovers, says Trevor Dennis.".

Simon

Posted by Simon Dawson at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 2:37pm BST

Thanks Simon Dawson- in that case- I'm on to it !

Posted by laurence roberts at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 7:29pm BST

Hobson says what I (Yank lifelong-Episcopalian) have long thought: establishment, in the 21st century, is a *criminally-negligent* anachronism.

Time to cut the cord! (and I say that, even knowing that if the conservative evs are correct about their superior/growing numbers, they may soon dominate the CofE in a way they could not, if the Church remained established. A risk we'll have to live with :-/).

Posted by J. C. Fisher at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 7:39pm BST

Yes, thanks you.

The Face to Faith piece is wonderful Moving, scholarly and so true to scripture. I feel I have been give back the Bible and my soul.

The vice dean of chester has us all in his debt. I am glad that this kind of radical, scriptural witness is still possible in these paranoid times.

Posted by laurence roberts at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 8:10pm BST

A nice selection. I cringe at humans need to bring sexuality into relationships, we often seem incapable of imagining a profound love without stirring in the element of eros. Sigh.

I agree with the points about consistency in liberal states. Isaiah 49 provides a model that justifies this perspective. At one level the passage is about two souls (Daughter of Zion and Jacob). Who are bound to each other but independent of each other and are thus capable of redeeming and protecting each other. Applying the fractal model, it is healthy to have inter-dependent parties (churches and state) who are bound to the same destiny but independent of each other. Having multiple advisors similarly puts in place checks to stop any one authority becoming too power driven. The reality is that most secular states have been juggling this tension for centuries - between the military and government.

Christina Rees made comment that when the editor approached her to write this article they were referring to "end times". The Abrahamic religions could do well to pick up an Eastern thinking model that history is cyclical, that there are recurring periods in an ever evolving pattern. That thinking enables us to move beyond a "absolute end of time" model to the "end of an era" kind of thinking. The latter would also stop some of our foolish leaders descecrating the planet and plundering with no regard to how our descendents are to survive.

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 10:35pm BST

Cheryl,

I would reverse your statement. Sadly many Christians often seem incapable of imagining a profound love which includes the element of eros. Sigh.

Simon

Posted by simon dawson at Saturday, 14 October 2006 at 11:53pm BST

Simon

It is probably an "and". Sadly, some humans are incapable of love unless there is something in it for them (e.g. sexual gratification). Sadly, other humans fear being fully alive and are thus incapable of profound love, especially where it involves eros. Both extremes have their difficulties and neither extreme is healthy.

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Sunday, 15 October 2006 at 11:09am BST

The Lindley / hymns piece is too small print for me-but proably unavoidable.

Posted by laurence roberts at Monday, 16 October 2006 at 3:34pm BST

Laurence

You could email me the Lindley / hymns piece - (use the hyperlink)? I am unfamiliar with it.

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Tuesday, 17 October 2006 at 7:57pm BST

Cheryl hi

It is in fact a piece listed above by simon Lindley in the Yorkshire Post, - the last of the pieces with live links,under today;s date (But the print ostoo small for me to make out).

Hope that helps.

Posted by laurence at Wednesday, 18 October 2006 at 9:21am BST

Cheryl it is listed HERE with a link,(above) under Saturday 14th October SIMON LINDLEY immediately under Christina Rees' aticle above,' Unfolding Adventure'. Hope you find it okay.

best wishes Laurence

Posted by laurence at Wednesday, 18 October 2006 at 1:09pm BST

Blush, Off to read it, it obviously didn't inspire me the first time. Blush again.

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Thursday, 19 October 2006 at 8:53pm BST

'S okay Cheryl !

Posted by laurence at Tuesday, 24 October 2006 at 10:47pm BST

Late comment but have just seen this.
Glad to see someone - Laurie Roberts - remembers that it is over 30 years since the church failed to respond to REACH. The Church continues to treat the gay issue politically rather than theologically.
Recent fudge has been about stopping the US church etc from doing what it believes right - so much for truth. It has yet to call the bluff of those who claim to rely on an infallible book rather than a living Lord. It is not simply gays who are being rejected but rather the God revealed to us in Jesus Christ. Compromise on the gay issue will not solve the problem - if the fundementalists get their way on this today, tomorrow they will be demanding something else. The church will eventually find itself sacrificing lambs in Jerusalem.

Posted by Revd Dennis Nadin at Sunday, 25 February 2007 at 4:14pm GMT
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