Comments: APO: more about Pittsburgh

One pattern that is coming clear is that "we'll play by the rules if we like the rule and have control over the rules" but "stuff the rules" if they aren't going our way. Another example of where "rule of law" is fine for imposition and containment of others, but not to be honored if and when it suits them. Considering God works in fractal patterns, I wonder if anyone else can recognise an other entities that only acknowledges laws applying to themselves on an "as convenient" basis?

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Thursday, 2 November 2006 at 7:37pm GMT

Lionel wrote, "One thing is clear: the militant traditionalists who are disrupting The Episcopal Church have consistently made outrageous requests, so that they can claim to be persecuted when those requests are not granted."

And that, of course, is precisely the intended purpose of all this ecclesiastical / political maneuvering.

Clearly a Monty Python-ist bit of " Help, help, I'm being persecuted!" ;)

Posted by David Huff at Thursday, 2 November 2006 at 8:08pm GMT

The only thing which is clear is what the dioceses concerned do not want. But in the absence of any known alternative it is hardly surprising that an agreed solution does not exist.

The Commissary idea is not such a bad suggestion. It offers a limited form of oversight (which FTG has acknowledged does not belong to the office of PB) more akin to guardianship, while not purporting to be a transfer to an external province (Canterbury) or the formation of a new internal province.

Posted by Alan Marsh at Friday, 3 November 2006 at 10:03am GMT

Why is the Commisary idea a good one? It's still a way to stand apart from the Church and make sure that those individuals who claim to have been persecuted, clergy and laity alike, can continue to draw attention to themselves. How about living up to what was agreed to when they, the leaders of the Network, AAC, etc., took their vows as Bishops and priests of the Church and swore they would conform to the doctrine and discipline of the Episcopal church? There is a polity in this church in which we all can work - to exact change, engage in dialogue, and wrestle with the issues that we disagree on rather than acting like spoiled children who don't want to play unless they get their way.

Posted by Richard III at Friday, 3 November 2006 at 5:13pm GMT

There's more than polity involved in being faithful to the one holy, catholic and apostolic church. In the opinion of many outside as well as within ECUSA, much of its leadership has not lived up to its commitment to the doctrine of that church. That leadership is now trying to demand conformity from those with whom it disagrees, and a way needs to be found to make space for those being marginalised. A Commissary seems to me to be a better idea than a split.

Posted by Alan Marsh at Friday, 3 November 2006 at 7:27pm GMT

You're right, it is better than a split and maybe it might even buy time for people to engage in real dialogue and focus on those things which unite us rather than the things that divide us or else it will allow folks time to dig their heels in and harden their attitudes even more. Not very Christian if you ask me. What would Jesus do?

Posted by Richard III at Saturday, 4 November 2006 at 12:33am GMT

Dialogue is all very well --- but the essential matter is justice for lgbt individuals and communities. This can never be an arcane discussion about the Bible and ethics between euqal groups. There is power imbalance here --- look at how we are treated in America, Nigeria and the UK. Look at the LAWS.

Look at how these Churches and their Laws operate. ECUSA alone is in the process of bringing in justice for us -- and has a long way to go..........

So don't talk to me about dialogue with those who have created and uphold this apartheid against lgbt people

I'm tired of riding in the back of the bus -- or having to walk / trudge......

Posted by laurence at Saturday, 4 November 2006 at 2:12pm GMT
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