Comments: APO: Fort Worth news

I heartily support Bishop Iker and the Standing Committee. God bless them as they fight for us.

Posted by Sioux at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 2:23pm GMT

I agree with Katie on her blog comments: Conserved believers will win their tilted battles but are overall losing their war upon their favorite target groups. Nobody is much really going to shut down science, inquiry, disrupting queer family life, or women in vocations - mainly because none of these things are actually very much part of the problems that hinder daily life, witness, or service in following Jesus of Nazareth.

Just next door in Dallas, the largest congregation of queer friendly folks in the USA exists and is thriving and planting new outreaches, now welcomed in the UCC fellowship of churches. See cathedralofhope.org. And Dallas itself is busy selling itself to LGBTQ tourists and convention goers as a destination of fun choice. One might even surmise that part of just why these amazing things are bothering to happen in north Texas is due to Fort Worth pushing everybody around like it prefers to do, purely. But Jesus is still Risen, out there in the rest of the planet, too, working and touching and changing lives that will never meet the ancient near eastern purity standards Fort Worth is pledging as its own final witness.

Via Media of Fort Worth folks, please know you are not as alone as the center thrust in the diocese may wish to tell you to believe you are.

Posted by drdanfee at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 3:20pm GMT

I'm intrigued that finally Fort Worth is interested in full compliance with Lambeth 1998-1.10 and the Windsor Report. After all, they could have begun a listening process years ago. The cynical side of me can't help but think that it's easy to talk about a listening process if one thinks all those to whom one might listen will have already gone away.

I hope for (and, ultimately, expect) Canterbury to remind Fort Worth that alternative oversight doesn't fall within his purview. (It won't stop them from making another connection, but it will clarify Fort Worth's understanding that "Anglican heritage" is more about form and less about relationships.) I see little impact in "withdrawing of consent" to participate in Province VII, since no one can force participation whatever the institutional definitions, and Fort Worth's participation in Province VII has been reduced for some time. If they approve a listening process, I hope someone is willing to talk. But what will actually come of all this only God knows.

Posted by Marshall Scott at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 4:57pm GMT

"I heartily support Bishop Iker and the Standing Committee. God bless them as they fight for us."

Gosh - is Santa Ana's army back? Who do you think is attacking you?

Posted by Cynthia at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 5:37pm GMT

There is no possible way to "adjust the truth" in Christs message of "loving one another" to twist and accomodate difference, fear, hate and outright bigotry against LGBT people and heterosexual women at all levels of OUR Episcopal Church life...deep character stains/sins won't wash away no matter how hard righteous folk in Ft. Worth scrub.

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 6:22pm GMT

"I'm intrigued that finally Fort Worth is interested in full compliance with Lambeth 1998-1.10 and the Windsor Report. After all, they could have begun a listening process years ago." Marshall

This is just one more 'mirage" for "appearances" for Ft. Worth to vote upon...Bishop Iker actually got up and left the "open forum hearings" when it was Bishop Robinsons turn to speak (for three minutes) at GC 2006...he, +Iker, by eye witness accounts, made quite a scene while collecting himself and his stuff as his graceless entourage swept out of the room!

Silliness abounds!

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 7:58pm GMT

It looks as if the 'true christians' who follow +Iker, +Duncan , +Schofield, etc. are finally starting to make their move away from the apostate, pagan Episcopal Church - go in peace and leave the keys when you do. If the property is that important make a fair offer for it and don't waste a lot of money on lawyers fighting about it.

Posted by RICHARD III at Thursday, 16 November 2006 at 9:01pm GMT

Father Marshall, I'm guessing that the listening process resolution was introduced by those who want to remain in TEC/PECUSA etc, since it was introduced by the same clergy who introduced the resolution for remaining in TEC/PECUSA. They are exposing hypocrisy.

I happen to know a lawyer in that Diocese. He's a candidate for ordination.

Posted by Caelius Spinator at Friday, 17 November 2006 at 12:21am GMT

Let's see how sincere these three Right Reverend Fathers are when the Church Hymnal Corporation brings up issues pertaining to their collective pensions.

Funny how those who try so hard to become martyrs are making a poor little man in a New England Diocese look like a saint.

"Silliness Abounds!"

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Friday, 17 November 2006 at 2:55am GMT

The +Iker, Duncan, Schofield crowd make me sick - sick because, for them, the Word of God is no longer a LIVING Word.

Clearly Matthew and Luke, who used Mark as a source for their own words, felt that the Spirit of God was still on the move, so that they could
change Mark's words in ways that were applicable to their contexts and people. For example, Luke who was writing to a Gentile audience, calling
them to faith in Christ, edited Mark's story about the Syro-Phoenician woman, where Jesus calls Gentiles "dogs".

Then there is Paul. Given the shift in situation from Jesus' time to his, Paul felt the need to adjust even Jesus' words! At 1 Cor.7:10-15,
Paul first cites Jesus by saying: "This is the word of the Lord." He goes on to say how Jesus' words disallow divorce. But then Paul does
something radical: To the rest I say--I and not the Lord--that if a situation arises that is different from the one Jesus envisioned, where
a pagan is married to a believer and threatens to pull this believer from his or her faith, then it is perfectly permissible to let the pagan
partner go his or her own way. This is a living word of authority from a man, Paul, who believes he is in contact with the Spirit of the Risen
Christ.

The NT words on homosexual behavior are also clear. They are words of condemnation. But they are words out of a particular context. There are
more words of condemnation of divorce in the NT than about homosexuality.

Why don't +Iker, Duncan, Schofield take those words about the prohibition of divorce more seriously, and banish from their midst
divorced and remarried episcopal colleagues? Obviously, because gays and lesbians are more marginalized in U.S. society than divorced and
remarried Episcopalians.

How many more passages are there in Scripture about the evils of wealth? How come +Iker, Duncan, Schofield don't wax eloquent focusing on those passages of Scripture? Wealthy Americans support their efforts to break up ECUSA.
Sadly, gays and lesbians are the marginalized people who can be bullied and abused with impunity.

Posted by John Henry at Friday, 17 November 2006 at 5:12pm GMT

This biblical analysis is very enlightening and enlivening. Thanks John Henry. We are so far from that spirit of creativity, boldness & innovation today, in many quarters.

Posted by laurence roberts at Friday, 17 November 2006 at 9:02pm GMT

Hi Richard III:

I wish we could all be clear on what it is that ALPO dioceses and Network parishes actually want. They don't want to leave the Episcopal Church without the church buildings and other property because their real aim is to supplant and take over the Episcopal Church.

Under various names and guises they have been agitating since GC 2003 -- well, really, long before -- to be recognized as the only legitimate expression of Anglicanism in the United States. They think that the Archbishop of Canterbury, or the Primates, or most of them, or somebody, is going to kick the present Episcopal Church out of the Anglican Communion and recognize them as the real Anglicans in the USA, and award them all the property the Episcopal Church now owns. Soon.

So these schismatic parishes and dioceses have to hang on to the buildings and other property when they leave the Episcopal Church. Otherwise (as they see it) they would fatally weaken their claim to be the real Anglicans in the USA. Continuing to worship in the same building gives them a legal claim to continuity as Anglicans (as they see it).

So in fact all their talk of an "amicable divorce" is just so much blowing smoke. They don't want a divorce; they want a takeover. Mad as that sounds, that is what they want to do.

In fact, they are doing it at this moment. Archbishop Akinola (and anyone still with him -- Chew and Venables, perhaps?) are meeting as I write with disaffected Episcopal dioceses and parishes in Virginia. They will stop at Lambeth on their way home and attempt to bully ++Rowan into recognizing CANA and the ALPO dioceses as a parallel North American province.

Then, at the Primates' meeting in February, they and any other Primates still with them will try to declare that the Episcopal Church is out of the Communion. They and the others still with them will state that they now recognize only CANA and the ALPO dioceses as legitimate expressions of Anglicanism in North America.

Then the CANA group will commence their lawsuits against the rest of the Episcopal Church's property. They are given to bragging about their deep pockets and have boasted that they will bankrupt the Episcopal Church if they cannot win.

Meanwhile, Archbishop Akinola will keep on threatening that if ++Rowan will not agree to his plan, he will start his own Global South Communion, headed by himself.

I give this last-ditch bit of brinkmanship zero chance of succeeding, but we will be hearing much from this group in the next two months.

Posted by Charlotte at Friday, 17 November 2006 at 10:36pm GMT

Charlotte is right on the mark with regard to the deceitful stategies of the usual suspects, including the self-centred Primate and Metropolitan of Abuja.

The Duncan, Iker, Schofield biblical theology is flawed in that the LIVING Word of God has become a DEAD Word, with the schismatic bishops absolutizing the historical contexts in which the words of Scripture were written. The many authoritative NT biblical words that sanctioned slavery (Eph. 6:5; Col. 3:22; Titus 2:9; 1 Pet. 2:13-15), devalued women (1 Cor 11; 14:34-35), or encouraged an almost blind obedience to the State (Rom. 13; 1 Pet. 2:13-15) are testimonies to the fact that the biblical authors were themselves creatures of their contexts who, just as we today, felt the inspiration of God and then translated the Word of God for their lives through those contexts. In the past, God the Holy Spirit has guided the Church into new insights, with the Church rejecting slavery in the 19th century, the subjugation of women in the 20th century. And God the Holy Spirit is guiding the process in the present.

Notable biblical theologians, Walter Bruggemann, William C. Placher and Brian K. Blount, expose their flawed theology with regard to gays and lesbians today in the very readable booklet, entitled, Struggle with Scripture (Knoxvile: Westminster John Knox Press, 2002). The collection of lectures is a real gem and worth everyone's attention.

Posted by John Henry at Saturday, 18 November 2006 at 12:28am GMT
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