Comments: adoption agency row: analysis

Late the sinner awaketh...

... but No, still blaming the other as "post-socialist".

Modernity is Egalitarian, Symmetric, Essentialist, and Opposite - pre Modernity was (sometimes) Hierarchic and A-symmetric.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 12:25am GMT

I have read the above, all of it, with trepidation. As an American Episcopal priest (retired) I feel totally at sea. I think the issues of Tanzania are not discussed, or understood in American parishes. The assumption here is that we will weather any storm, and that the union with Canturbury could never fracture.
It is a fact that American anglicanism has become almost totally social gospel oriented. Doing good is always preferred to thinking well.
The issues are much too difficult and sophisticated for the US church to deal with, in my opinion.
I want to know what will become of me, Can I do supply in England? Does Rome want me? I suspect the answer to both is No. And I had expected to grow old in the arms of Mother Church.

Posted by Allan at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 1:27am GMT

It's more than a "post-socialist" commitment. Citizenry rights and obligations have been there since God had Moses lead the people out of Egypt.

e.g. Exodus 20:10 "...the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates."

So GLBTs get covered by either being aliens, or even if they are beasts (as some acussers like to call them) they are still covered by the covenant of the Sabbath.

Exodus 22:21-24 includes "“Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt. Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan. If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry. My anger will be aroused..."

So, if we "disinherit" GLBTs, we make them as orphans, and God rises to defend the fatherless. See Psalms 10:14-19 & 68:5-6 & 82:3-8 & 146:9; Proverbs 23:10-11; Isaiah 1:14-20; Jeremiah 5:27-31 & 22:3; Ezekiel 22:6-8; Zechariah 7:9-14; Malachi 3:5.

Don't assume all civil liberties come from the socialist movement (though God knows there are enough immodest souls who would like to posture that is the case).

Similarly, it wouldn't hurt for some people to remember that Karl Marx was the grandson of a rabbi. And I have heard Marx quoted as saying that religion brings the heart to a heartless world.

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 8:40am GMT

Thank you for reminding us, dear Cheryl!

... but then, the anti-Moderns, so much into dogmatics, politics, logic and "science", think what the Bible actually says is only "technicalities", anyway...

;=)

It's their late Modern dogmatics, politics, "logic" and "science" that are "Bible believing" and right, not the Holy Scriptures (always in the plural) of the Bible.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 9:14am GMT

Do not despair Allan.

I do not see why you couldn't 'do supply in England' but why leave America, unless you want to? ECUSA will be the Church whatever happens in Dar es Salaam -- place of peace.

Your new PB seems to go in for 'good thinking ' also. And good preaching !

with every good wish

Posted by seeker at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 3:36pm GMT

Excellent piece by Conor!

Again I want to remind those of you across the pond how fortunate you are to have something like The Tablet!

If any RC publication in the USA published the sorts of things that appear regularly in The Tablet, the Ordinary would exert pressure (& if necessary the Bishops' Conference).

Posted by Prior Aelred at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 4:43pm GMT

"Sex and the secular liberal"?

I'm sure they mean libertine.

;=)

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Saturday, 10 February 2007 at 7:29pm GMT
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