Comments: Faith Leaders condemn Nigerian legislation

This has been going on a while. I cannot imagine that the ABC will not have had words/sent letters in private expressing his concern to the Most Reverend of the universe.

Posted by Neil at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 9:59am GMT

Having just got back from a mission trip to Kenya, I can reassert that the church in Africa is on fire for Christ, not merely smouldering for various political causes.

Posted by Robert McLean at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 10:29am GMT

I am relieved to see so many Episcopal names, ashamed to see no Roman Catholic ones, sad to see that it is only the "usual suspects" who speak up for gays, just as it was only lefties and liberals who spoke up for Jews back then.

Honour to the signatories; shame to the silent ones.

Posted by Fr Joe O'Leary at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 11:31am GMT

'...back from a mission trip to Kenya, I can reassert that the church in Africa is on fire for Christ ...'

Posted by: Robert McLean on Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 10:29am GMT

I would know more,Friend.

Posted by Laurence Roberts at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 12:58pm GMT

There is one person, who is in synod at present, who needs to stand up and condemn the situation in Nigeria.

Posted by Pluralist at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 1:53pm GMT

Robert McLean, it's very easy to say things which carry for ourselves lots of clear meaning but for everyone else can mean a lot of different things, or even appear to cover for a lack of meaning. Please tell me exactly what you mean by the following two phrases:

a) "on fire for Christ"

b) "merely smouldering for various political causes"

Thank you.

Posted by matthew hunt at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 1:55pm GMT

"Having just got back from a mission trip to Kenya, I can reassert that the church in Africa is on fire for Christ, not merely smouldering for various political causes."

I hope you are not implying that the Kenyan Christians are indifferent to political causes such as the environment; the looting of African wealth by Western powers; Aids and disease; the oppression of women and gays.

Posted by Fr Joe O'Leary at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 2:03pm GMT

And the Nigerian bill wasn't mentioned as a matter of urgent concern at the Primates because...?

Shame on us all for not holding our Primates accountable for this.

Posted by Rodney at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 2:25pm GMT

I have it on the best authority that the Nigerian law was not mentioned at all during the formal meetings of the Primates.

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 2:49pm GMT

"And the Nigerian bill wasn't mentioned as a matter of urgent concern at the Primates because...?"

Haven't you heard? The Primates are loathe to interfere in the internal affairs of their members' bailiwicks. They don't believe in boundary crossing - unless it's interfering in and crossing the boundaries of TEC.

Posted by Cynthia at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 3:02pm GMT

"I am afraid to say, and do so with a very heavy heart, that it is clear you have failed your own test and lost much moral authority in this thankless process. It is hardly surprising then that we and increasing numbers of faithful Anglicans find any attempt to give the Primates the "enhanced" authority they seek through the Covenant, risible." Richard Kirker

Denial, betrayal, pretending, omissions?

Standing in the Anglican Cathedral in Zanzibar that was built over the ruins of a SLAVE MARKET of gross injustice/deadly to fellowkind and greed... then, pontificating about UNITY with those who DISCRIMINATE before God/fellow Anglicans by NOT receiving and refusing communion with fellow Anglicans/Christians is just plain blindness and selective believing...God wants us to pay attention and stop playing pretend with dangerous hatemongers and bigots...at least, that's the message I've received as I see hate crimes promoted/acted-out against LGBT Christians/Muslims.

The ABC and the Primates who have signed a Communique which omitted TRUTH and endorsed blackmail, fear/hate and oppression of LGBT people have now "signed on" the dotted line for the Akinolan injustice which will bring death to OUR fellow human beings!

Unity at any price?

No means no!

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 3:02pm GMT

The leaders who are trying to sell us on preserving the unity of the AC in the name of remaining at the table are conspicuously and depressingly absent from this protest. If they are afraid to upset Akinola with criticism they have no business sitting at the table with him.

Posted by Richard Lyon at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 3:53pm GMT

Fr Joseph O'Leary wrote: "... just as it was only lefties and liberals who spoke up for Jews back then."

If it is any comfort for your poor tormented soul, I can assure you that none of my Grandparents were "lefties" or "liberal".

You have been reading too many American blogs of the Venomonline kind.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 4:11pm GMT

And when will all these people actually go to Nigeria and live with the people and understand what it's like to live in Nigeria (especially up north)? Inquiring minds want to know. They now seem to be such experts on Nigerian democracy and obviously want to see it flourish - can we expect that they will be moving there soon, since obviously there is nothing to criticize about legislation before the US Congress.

We know why these press releases are made - and they don't have to do with the legislation in Nigeria. It's all about flipping the bird at Akinola. No one is fooled. Let's just get real.

Posted by The Masked Tortilla at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 5:56pm GMT

Even those who think that homosexual acts are sinful should still defend the civil freedom of gay people. Promoting laws that will imprison an individual for being gay or looking the other way at these laws belies the claim of loving the sinner.

Posted by PamBG at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 6:44pm GMT

Let me get this straight. Leaning hard on the American church, the Anglican Communion seeks to accommodate morally repugnant policies of Nigeria that would make even the Bush junta blush?

And the Archbishop of Canterbury is making nice with the Nigerian Archbishop and his fellow global southerners in the interests of what … family harmony? Family values? The Church head count and treasury?

Posted by James Barringer at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 7:07pm GMT

Goran

There were Catholic priests who went to Auswitzch too. Sometimes souls will do the right thing even the establishment is butt kissing the power mongers.

I quite like how Jesus understood that one needed to look beyond the letter of the law to the intent of the law e.g. Matthew 5:17-20 and Jesus calls on us to take on a righteousness that surpasses that of the puritans and teachers of the law.

And I also love Luke 6:31-36. Particularly poignant for these morally bankrupt leaders. "...if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. ...love your enemies, do good to them... be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

Posted by Cheryl Clough at Thursday, 1 March 2007 at 8:47pm GMT

So there were Cheryl, for instance a Polish Pater Maximilian Kolbe, who changed his own triangle to the Pink one of a fellow intern and died for it.

I believe he was sainted by Johannes Paulus II.

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Friday, 2 March 2007 at 12:55pm GMT

Masked Tortilla, you wrote:

"We know why these press releases are made - and they don't have to do with the legislation in Nigeria. It's all about flipping the bird at Akinola. No one is fooled. Let's just get real."

You are making huge assumptions here. Why have I been writing about this topic (for over a year now)? "Flipping the bird" at Akinola is not my motivation at all. I am not a member of the Anglican Communion (I don't think HRW's Scott Long is either), but members of my family are, and they're conservative. I speak out for their sake, not for the sake of the far more liberal members of The Episcopal Church of the Church of England.

I also speak out on behalf of gay and lesbian Nigerians, who will be persecuted for politically organizing on their own behalf -- a massive violation of human rights, thus within Human Rights Watch's sphere of concern.

Finally, if I personally have ever sounded critical of Akinola, it has been only in the context of this legislation. If I have ever sounded critical of conservative American Anglicans, it is only because they have acquiesced to Akinola's endorsement and strong support of this legislation.

I'm being honest with you, Tortilla. Take off you mask and tell us what motivates you.

Posted by Matt at Friday, 2 March 2007 at 2:23pm GMT

"It's all about flipping the bird at Akinola" The Masked Tortilla

Oh, the "bird" that Akinola flips at LGBT Christians/Muslims in Nigeria with anti-human rights legislation (endorsed/promoted by him) or is it the "bird" that he flips The Episcopal Church with his "diocese boundry crossing" and proganda spewing/ill spirited preaching against fellow human beings? Or, you must mean the bird he flips boldly when with his filthy badmouthing of "the holligan children" that LGBT people produce/raise in OUR families? I realize that even Akinola only has one two hands but one gets the impression he has dozens of middle fingers through his actions/pronouncements against fellow human beings at Changing Attitudes Nigera and other venues of hatemongering both in and outside of the Anglican Communion.

My personal favorite is his "absense" from Communion with ALL his brothers and sister PRIMATES at the former SLAVE MARKET in Zanzibar!

Now, there is a "flipped out" finger to behold!

The Unmasked WHOLE Enchilada

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Friday, 2 March 2007 at 2:40pm GMT

To be clear, the proposed legislation in Nigeria does not make homosexual acts illegal. Homosexual acts are already criminal offenses in Nigeria.

However, the act would make it illegal to "advocate" on behalf of homosexuals. In other words, to say, in Nigeria "I don't think homosexual acts should be criminalized" would be a crime.

Arguably, it might even make it illegal to say "I think murdering Davis Mac-Iyalla because he's gay would be a bad thing."

I'm curious how His Grace of Nigeria is doing with that "listening process" thingee, with the requirement to create a "safe place" for homosexual persons to share their experience.

Not very well, I gather.

Posted by Malcolm French+ at Friday, 2 March 2007 at 4:37pm GMT
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