Comments: Fort Worth reaffirms pursuit of APO

"pastoral relationship could be established with an orthodox primate, in the interest of preserving unity "

Ha! Don't they know that unity means they should stick with what they've been given?!

Posted by Tim at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 1:42am BST

Well, this is interesting, if not terribly surprising. While others may have looked north and east, Fort Worth is the diocese I would first have expected to make this statement. After all, their statement about "not bothering" the Panel of reference ignores the fact that the Panel did address an earlier concern, said that the current structure should be acceptable, and failed to discredit the Episcopal Church.

And to now their Executive Committee sees three possibilities: to form a new province with like-minded dioceses within North America; to establish independently a relationship with another province; or an extra-provincial relationship with Canterbury. Well, there are Global South bishops aplenty who might accommodate them.

That raises the question, though, of what they are prepared to give up. They will not give up independence of the structures of the Episcopal Church; so, what will they give up? What does it mean for a diocese to try to leave the Episcopal Church? (Forego for the moment the statement, "People can leave the Church, but the Diocese can't leave the Church:" I agree, but if enough people walk at the same time it's a meaningful event.) What will Fort Worth, or any other diocese, give up to leave the Episcopal Church?

Posted by Marshall Scott at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 2:35am BST

Reads as if Fort Worth is laying a defensive groundwork for trying to leave off, lock and stock and barrel, being a duly consituted diocese of TEC. Few other constructions of the contexts and direction make sense.

They will not be taking their women priests with them, of course.

Posted by drdanfee at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 2:44am BST

Bishop Iker has quite the flair for the ridiculous...it's a Texas kinda thingie and has to do with oversized hats being worn on small minded buckaroos.

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 4:16am BST

"The Presiding Bishop of this church . . . has denied basic tenets of the teaching of the New Testament."

FW continues to go w/ the "Repeat the BIG LIE ad nauseum!" technique I see. :-/

Posted by JCF at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 7:06am BST

As far as I know, that diocese doesn't allow women priests.

Posted by Paul Davison at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 11:49am BST

David Hackett Fischer in "albion's seed" tracks regional American cultural differences from their origins quite convincingly - his "roundup" (to follow the western analogy) illustrates the confrontational nature of Southern and much of Western USA culture which was derived from border UK culture including high allegiance to clans - the US "War between the States" and present attitudes in Iraq etc can be viewed profitably through this lens - it explains much - Also as you may not be aware Bp. Iker of Texas has discouraged -?prohibited- his clergy from praying for PB Schori in the Prayers of the people!! Sad when a church refuses to pray for others!!

Posted by ettu at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 12:45pm BST

"Also as you may not be aware Bp. Iker of Texas has discouraged -prohibited- his clergy from praying for PB Schori in the Prayers of the people!! Sad when a church refuses to pray for others!!"

In my very liberal New York parish, George W. Bush is about as popular as cancer. However, we grit our teeth and pray for "George, our President" every Sunday.

I suppose Iker and followers in Ft. Worth can't bring themselves to pray for "The Devil's Ho" as our Presiding Bishop is known on the ConsEv blogs.

Posted by counterlight at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 1:34pm BST

As an addendum, I am quite certain that WO is verboten in Fort Worth - there is a rather circuitous - some would say tortuous or tortured- alternative pathway requiring women to semi-transfer to an adjoining diocese as far as I am aware - it sounds like lip service to the concept - as as aside and on a rare personal note I confess that I may be distantly related to BP Iker - in any event I have no plans to contact him to compare ancestors!!!!!!

Posted by ettu at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 1:34pm BST

That +Iker and his little posse have been allowed to run their diocese in opposition to most others in TEC should quench any arguments about TEC being tolerant about dissenting views.

Their existence is the greatest undoing of their cause.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 2:38pm BST

Bp. Iker has never forbidden prayers for the Presiding Bishop. Trinity, St. Christopher's, and St. Martin-in-the-Fields all pray for her on a weekly basis without fear because Bp Iker never made the statement.

Posted by terry from fw at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 3:13pm BST

Please note my comment was that Bp Iker discourages and ? prohibited prayers for PB Schori - I am relieved if he did not actually prohibit them tho the discouragement has been effective I believe in most of his area - what is the work on WO - do my statements stand on that important point?

Posted by ettu at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 3:36pm BST

Terry,

According to a letter dated July 7, 2006 from Fort Worth Via Media, Bp. Iker did indeed instruct his clergy to not include Bp. Katharine in the Prayers of the People:

http://www.fwviamedia.org/letters.html

Posted by Jake at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 6:12pm BST

Wow!! Jake!! I was about to post a link to your blog -probably the above link - was I surprised to see you beat me to it - thanks for validating my initial comment

Posted by ettu at Thursday, 17 May 2007 at 7:21pm BST

Jake, ettu ... the story that Jack Iker forbade his clergy to pray for KJS is false. It is correct to say as you do that the via media group in Forth Worth reports it as being true, but an inquiry to the diocese or any number of parishes will show this story to be apocryphal.

It is true that a number of Fort Worth parishes use Rite II of the 1928 Eucharist and a number of prayers of the people in that service do not include prayers for the presiding bishop by name. But as a point of fact ... Bishop Iker did not forbid his clergy at the clergy conference held after the 2006 General Convention to pray for the Presiding Bishop in the prayers of the people. He has not forbidden his clergy at any time from praying for the Presiding Bishop in the prayers of the people. Chances are this Sunday you will find a number of parishes in the diocese of Fort Worth including the Presiding Bishop in the prayers of the people (if the liturgy provides for such)....

The charge leveled by the via media group doesn't stand up.

Posted by George Conger at Friday, 18 May 2007 at 3:12pm BST

"Rite II of the 1928 Eucharist"-

????????

I always thought singular version of Holy Communion began on page 67, and that prayers for the state of the Church were not commonly referred to as the "prayers for the people".

Then again, some parishes have been using missals as per permission from their bishops. Guess this low-churchman is missing something.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Friday, 18 May 2007 at 4:49pm BST

Surely, the Fort Worth Via media must know about the Rites being used in their own diocese?

Posted by Göran Koch-Swahne at Friday, 18 May 2007 at 5:11pm BST

"The charge leveled by the via media group doesn't stand up." G. Conger


How do you know?

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Saturday, 19 May 2007 at 7:03pm BST

As far as I know, and I have been a member of the Fort Worth Diocese all my life, there is ONLY 1 church in the Diocese that uses the 1928 Prayer Book, Saint Andrew's, Downtown Fort Worth. That parish also uses the 1940 Hymnal. I've been to most of the Churches in the diocese at one time or another, and they ALL (except St. Andrew's) use the 1979 Book of Common Prayer. I also recall hearing that Saint Timothy's may also use a different, more ancient RITE, but I have never been there, so I'm not sure, but it IS NOT IN THE MAINSTREAM in Fort Worth to use a different Rite. There are 55 Churches in the Diocese of Fort Worth.

Did G. Conger go to any of these clergy gatherings where praying for Bishop Katherine Jefferts Schori could have been discussed? If so, then we know his statements are true, but if not, his accusations are also just speculation.

I believe there is WAY TOO MUCH SPECULATION in most of these arguments to really know the "truth" about EXACTLY what a person says or thinks or feels unless one READS THE ACTUAL STATEMENTS OF THE DIOCESE AND ESSAYS AND ARTICLES ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY THE PEOPLE CONCERNED.

Some of the ACTUAL statements made "officially" by the Diocese of Fort Worth, including the latest APO document are ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS, and have to be read to be believed!

There is one Church in Fort Worth that left the Episcopal Church to join the Roman Catholic Church MANY years ago, St. Mary's. It would make sense that this Church, now a Catholic Church, would use a missal. However, this church is NO LONGER part of the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth.

In the Book of Common Prayer the 1928 version, THERE IS NO RITE 2! There is ONLY ONE EUCHARISTIC RITE in the 1928 Prayer Book, period. I know of at least 3 churches in the Diocese that pray at least weekly for the Presiding Bishop in the Prayers of the People. We did have at my local church a Deacon who would not recite the Prayers of the People because Bishop Katherine was included on the written prayer list (she never said this was the reason, I just realized that she read the Prayers of the People up until Bishop Katharine's election, and the next week she read them without Bishop Katharine's name, then the next week and each succeeding week thereafter a lay person read the prayers with Bishop Katharine's name inserted).
I hope this clears things up a little for those of you on the outside.

NO MATTER HOW YOU BELIEVE, the Episcopal Diocese in Fort Worth NEEDS YOUR PRAYERS DESPERATELY. Please remember us!

Sarah

Posted by Sarah at Tuesday, 29 May 2007 at 4:16am BST

Some new info from those in Ft Worth committed to staying with TEC.
The rector of Trinity Church, Fort Worth, responds to the Standing Committee of the Diocese of Fort Worth. http://www.fortworthtrinity.org/sermons/REMAIN_AND_WITNESS_Paper_to_Stand_Comm.pdf
Also Bp. Stanton of Dallas has put all ordinations on hold which voids the so-called Dallas plan touted by the Panel of Reference.

Posted by Ann at Tuesday, 29 May 2007 at 3:10pm BST

I am in the Diocese of Fort Worth. I can say that various parishes certainly have their own policy about the Prayers of the People. The parish I attend now (All Saints') has always included Frank Griswold or Katharine Jefferts-Schori (depending on who was Presiding Bishop) by name in the Prayers of the People, if the form we were using provided for such.

I left the cathedral (the closest parish to my home) for several reasons. I really felt like they expected everyone in the parish to be pro-ACN and pro-AAC, and they DID refuse to pray for the Presiding Bishop. I did not care to be a part of the Network "campaign," and I thought that refusing to pray for the PB was wrong.

We have NO excuse to exclude prayers for the Presiding Bishop or our own bishop, whether we agree or disagree with them. Jesus said pray for our enemies. Regardless of where anyone stands on this issue, we are to pray for others.

Posted by Doni M at Thursday, 31 May 2007 at 10:27pm BST
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