Comments: American news update

Episcopal Cafe also has a press release by Archbishop Morgan that is very encouraging in his support of inclusivity and questions the covenant as written.

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/anglican_communion/archbishop_of_wales_cannot_sup.html

I am American so I can't really speak to this, but I hope others here can. It seems to me that the ABC is garnering a lot of support from the ABs of York, Ireland, Wales and Scotland of late to NOT succumb to the pressures of the GS. Could the United Kingdom be circling the wagons sort to speak. Signifying clearly together what constitutes "Anglicanism" and the way forward for the AC on the basis of a united front, allowing those who want something else - to go and do something else?

Posted by C.B. at Tuesday, 18 September 2007 at 7:11pm BST

I'm confused. Doesthis mean that when the ACC & Primates committees meet on 24 September the ABC will not be with them? Is he usually part of their meetings? Why or why not?
Columba Gilliss

Posted by Columba Gilliss at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 12:04am BST

Dywedodd yn dda Barry Morgan !

Well said Barry Morgan !

There is no place in these islands for such a 'Covenant', which goes against the historic & current grain of Celtic spirituality, and ways doing theology and being Church.

Posted by L Roberts at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 12:37am BST

"create a structure for separate episcopal oversight for conservative congregations who disagree with the churchs liberal leadership"

Without creating a structure for separate episcopal oversight for *progressive* (i.e., democratic-majority) congregations who disagree w/ their bishop's *conservative* leadership?

Double standard! (and non-starter)

Stephen Bates, if you're here: I have to say, this article is not up to your usual standards.

For example:

"There have been demands that the Americans should be thrown out of the communion although the mechanism for that does not exist unless they repent."

Don't you mean "...thrown out of the communion unless they repent (although the mechanism for that does not exist)"? [Not to mention the missing possessive apostrophe in "undo Bishop Robinsons election"]

My brothers and sisters in TEC: be brave in the Lord. God *IS* working God's purpose out, and if we cling to Christ, the Kingdom WILL come! :-D

Posted by JCF at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 12:59am BST

Yes, the ABC wlll be with the ACC and Joint Standing Committee. They will all be in New Orleans this week.

Posted by ruidh at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 2:01am BST

C.B. wrote "It seems to me that the ABC is garnering a lot of support from the ABs of York, Ireland, Wales and Scotland of late to NOT succumb to the pressures of the GS."

The Church of Ireland is, in actual fact, BOUND by its own Constitution to remain in communion with the Church of England. It's Declaration prefacing the Constitution, adopted in 1870 at the time of disestablisment, states - http://www.ireland.anglican.org/index.php?do=about&id=42 -

"The Church of Ireland WILL MAINTAIN COMMUNION with the sister Church of England, and with all other Christian Churches agreeing in the principles of this Declaration; and will set forward, so far as in it lieth, quietness, peace, and love, among all Christian people."

The principles mentioned can be found at the above link. Interestingly, it seems to imply that communion with the CofE is not dependant on its (perceived?) acceptance of said principles, as is communion with other churches (where principle 1.3 might become the focus of debate - innovation in doctrine and worship whereby the primitive faith is defaced or overlaid).

Posted by MJ at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 9:16am BST

The Solange de Santis article is by far the most interesting and inspiring. It gives me hope that some day in the not too distant future we may return to focusing on prayer and pastoral care and help for the devastated...and support of musicians too.

Posted by dmitri at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 12:20pm BST

MJ: Thank you for your link and the context you provide. The Church of Ireland declaration is about as concrete a covenant as the Anglican Communion can sustain. Its focus on the balance of the essential nature of Holy Scripture, of the importance of apostolic tradition, and of respectful collegiality provide ample framework for a healthy life lived together in unity, not in uniformity.

Posted by Fr. Shawn+ at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 1:36pm BST

Ruidh,
Were you responding to my previous question? I know the ABC will be with the other this week but it appears that after the HoB ends its meeting, the ACC & Primates committees will meet again -- presumably by themselves to respond to the actions of our bishops -- on next Monday. Will the ABC have left town. Am I correct to read the articles thus?
Columba Gilliss

Posted by Columba Gilliss at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 3:34pm BST

Fr Shawn wrote: "The Church of Ireland declaration is about as concrete a covenant as the Anglican Communion can sustain."

Yes, and the CofI take it seriously. They frequently refer to it in responses to the wider Communion, e.g.:

CofI Response to the Inter-Anglican Theological Doctrinal Commission on 'The Anglican Communion' (2002)
"[W]e think it worthy of note that, in 1870, the Church of Ireland produced the Preamble and Declaration which attempted to think the relationship between the Church of Ireland and the Church of England within the context of disestablishment. In that document the view develops of an autonomous church gladly and freely recognising the ecclesial significance of a historic relationship guaranteed and authorised in no other (certainly no juridical) way. The document also interestingly commits the Church of Ireland to act in such a way that communion will not be jeopardised, but rather maintained."

CofI Committee for Christian Unity Response to the Windsor Report (2004)
"The Preamble and Declaration of 1870...is the primary statement of our Irish Anglican understanding of communion – in communion with the Church of England and with other churches who bear witness to the principles enshrined in the Declaration."
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/commission/reception/responses/pdf/comm_churchofirelandinter-faithsection.pdf

CofI Peliminary Response to the Windsor Report (2005)
"[T]he Church of Ireland has, in a uniquely distinctive way, incorporated a simple but remarkably influential covenant in the Preamble and Declaration Prefixed to the Constitution of the Church of Ireland...We argue that the strength of this reference is that it is indicative of an open and not a closed framework for the enablement of our manner of relating. The Declaration, and the principles of relationship to which it points, find their dynamic in a statement of origins and a common inheritance that have enabled us to live with subsequent differences, for example over the ordination of women to the episcopate. In this respect it is true to some of the characteristics of the biblical concept of “covenant” which is dynamic rather than merely prescriptive or restrictive.
http://www.anglicancommunion.org/commission/reception/responses/pdf/province_churchofirelandpreliminaryresponse.pdf

Posted by MJ at Wednesday, 19 September 2007 at 4:24pm BST

JCF: I was travelling to New Orleans all yesterday so have only now seen your strictures. I don't know what has appeared on-line but my paper copy of my story has:
"There have been demands that the Americans should be thrown out of the communion - although the mechanism for that does not exist - unless they repent..." which is what I wrote.
And there is an apostrophe after Bishop Robinson....
I don't know what illiterate transcribed the story, but it was not me. I try not to make grammatical errors and the Guardian tries not to print them...

Posted by stephen bates at Thursday, 20 September 2007 at 9:36pm BST
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