Comments: South Carolina has a new bishop at last

I really wanna hope for the best (in South Carolina). Looking at this consecration cohort, though, that's gonna take a MIRACLE!

Re Dean McKeachie statement: Say Wha??? (I need a translation, I think, from Reasserter, to *Anglican*)

Posted by JCF at Monday, 28 January 2008 at 10:57pm GMT

Re Dean McKeachie's reference to the Presiding Bishop's "litigious chancellor", the diocese of South Carolina has, since 2005, been plaintiff in a case against the secessionist congregation of All Saints, Pawley's Island, seeking return to TEC of the church's buildings & property. All Saints, in turn, has been suing the diocese since 2000.

The situation is further complicated by the consecration of Terrell Glenn, secessionist rector of All Saints Church, Pawleys Island, as a bishop of the Anglican Mission in America.

Posted by Lapinbizarre at Monday, 28 January 2008 at 11:59pm GMT

The Good protestant slave owners of Charleston would have rejected Lawerence in 1807, as a crypto-Papist.

In 1907 the segregationist white burghers ( who had no blacks in the Church) would have rejected him as being too high.

In 1957 they would have rejected him, if they had got wind that he would have ordained Lawerence has said he will.

Gene Robinson need not feel so rejected.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 12:41am GMT

Yes one hopes for the best from this new SC bishop; but the hovering signs do not indicate safety and welcome, but rather realignment and risk and danger to all the rest of us who do not wish in good conscience to be so conservatively realigned. I can have Bishop Lawrence as a brother, but not as the pat replacement for my pilgrim's conscience as a progressive Anglican believer. If Lawrence does not care to do certain difficult types of inquiry and discernment, including certain hot button types of harmonizing among the sciences, ethics, and theology - oh well, that hardly exempts me from the good call.

Duncan of PBurgh will surely harbor the secret hopes that Lawrence may be a new protege - and some of Lawrence's hedging about diversity and welcome, carefully ever so carefully worded in his candidating walk about, suggest that under just the right incentives he can become a mini-Duncan, or should one say instead, a mini-Schofield?

But realignment push has not yet come to Lambeth shove, now has it? Nor is the nothing but narrow and exclusionary and conservative new Anglican covenant been so desperately welcomed yet, all around the planet.

God grant we shall long remain followers of Jesus of Nazareth, even long after we might no longer be able to be progressive Anglicans?

Posted by drdanfee at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 12:57am GMT

Bishop Hathaway's sermon is posted on Tony Clavier's blog. While clearly a conservative, Hathaway emphatically rejects the tactics of the "conservatives." He criticizes both sides reasonably even-handedly, and reminds conservatives and "conservatives" that they cannot lead from negativity.

Worth a read.

Posted by Malcolm+ at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 4:06am GMT

Well, congratulations Bishop Lawrence. No doubt you will be a good and faithful pastor after the Saviour's own heart. Nevertheless, you did say some mightily careless things during the election process. So to be safe we'll set the stop watch to see how long you last before the inhibition proceedings begin.

Posted by kieran crichton at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 4:35am GMT

Given that such a cohort was predictable, it illustrates an incredible generosity on TEC's part. The US bishops gave their assent to Lawrence in spite of their well-grounded misgivings. That consent is juridically the same as was given to Gene Robinson, and is no less costly in so many ways. I just hope against hope that those who have ears will take note of such costly generosity....

Posted by Joe Cassidy at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 5:00am GMT

I am glad people greet this with a sense of hope. Though regret the grudging and miserly way in which they comment. This is clearly the bishop the people want and have chosen, and he represents one aspect of the Anglican tradition that needs to be honoured. And it is lovely so many overseas bishops came along to his consecration.

Posted by Neil at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 12:52pm GMT

Not for much longer, though, as I am sure he will be following the refuseniks out of TEC soon.

Posted by Merseymike at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 3:19pm GMT

Long before I came out of the closets in church life, family life, and school - a late bloomer in college, really - I learned the hard way to pay very, very, very careful attention to just what people said, and just how they said it.

It is this sort of attention which sometimes turned out to be a matter of survival, though I would preferred to have focused on thriving.

Call my posted remarks grudging or miserly then; but the sorts of love the sinner hate the sin preachments of which the bishop is so capable reliably suggested a range of potentials among those preaching traditional views for bad, later on.

Some would not lead the attack behind the gym, but would join in. Others would not lead or join in directly, but seemed to have no trouble watching in safe bystander position. In my case, nobody ever intervened because you see, queer folks were simply not supposed to exist - it wasn't part of the natural order of things, let alone any valorized order of things created by God.

What would this bishop do? One does not know. What would the believers who elected him do? One does not know. I think if you are driving through South Carolina, you better keep your eyes and ears open.

One can honestly say believers often sound as if they would or could maybe:
(A) walk by the highway, opposite side, while somebody lays in the ditch;
(B) hurriedly get somebody to drive you to the nearest ER and urge everybody to hush up about the attackers being leaders of the church youth group;
(C) get you to medical care, then visit you afterwards to constantly preach how this is God's judgment on you, and you need to change your sexual orientation;
(D) stand by uninvolved while the hospital denies your partner (and maybe even the older children?) intensive care unit visiting rights;
(E) vigorously deny that any of their negative views ever had anything to do with winding up the young folks who assaulted you.

Having been assaulted more than once by traditional religious believers, I feel cautioned to look for indicators. I want to know I am really safe, equal, and all that. God willing and the creek don’t rise, safety and equality will become bedrock - in church life, business, professional services, school, and well you get the picture.

Posted by drdanfee at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 3:59pm GMT

Not having been to may consecrations, is it common practice to have Bishops from outside the TEC participating?
Just wondering!

Posted by David C at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 7:27pm GMT

while I'm not enthused about the guy from Nigeria, it kind of makes no difference. Mark swore to uphold the canons of the church. IF he breaks them, he is out. I'm willing to trust that he won't. IF he is willing to act dishonorably, it makes no difference whether the rest of the church gives consent or not. giving consent would then have only hastened the diocese's departure.

Posted by Weiwen at Tuesday, 29 January 2008 at 11:14pm GMT

"Not having been to may consecrations, is it common practice to have Bishops from outside the TEC participating?
Just wondering!"

David C, it's not common, but not all that unheard of. Expect to see more of this.

Posted by Davis d'Ambly at Wednesday, 30 January 2008 at 4:10pm GMT

There were a number of foreign bishops at the consecration of the present Bishop of New Hampshire.

Posted by Malcolm+ at Thursday, 31 January 2008 at 5:42am GMT

It is not unusual to have so many bishops (& foreign ones) participating -- it is unusual to have so many bishops participating who consider themselves not to be in Communion with The Episcopal Church (& so few who do).

It seems to be intended as a sign & not an encouraging one.

Posted by Prior Aelred at Thursday, 31 January 2008 at 2:22pm GMT

David C.
It is fairly common to have bishops from outside TEC.

At the consecration of Tom Shaw (+Massachusetts), those participating included Michael Peers (++Canada) and Krister Stendahl (+Stockholm, ret.). At the consecration of Gene Robinson, Michael Ingham (+New Westminster), Bruce Stavert (+Quebec) and an Irish bishop (companion diocese) participated. Claude Miller (+Fredericton) is slated to participate (or has) in the consecration of the new bishop of Maine. A bishop of the Philippine Independent Church participated in Frank Griswold's consecration as Bishop of Chicago.

The main criteria is either a companion diocese relationship or other close mission ties between dioceses, or personal ties to the new bishop.

Posted by Jim Pratt at Thursday, 31 January 2008 at 3:04pm GMT

Anglican TV has posted the video of the bishop of Winchester's address to the recent SC diocesan convention. Like Simon's interview with Ruth Gledhill, it requires the installation of new software, but unlike Simon's interview it will not download on the pc at which I am currently stationed. One of those who has commented on it at Stand Firm (Scott McCall) States "Bp. Scott-Joynt referred to the “cancer” that is spreading from ECUSA throughout the communion. ...... +Winchester also states broadly without details that the cancer has gone to the CofE itself."

Maybe someone who has better luck with this link than I can report if there is more of interest.

Posted by Lapinbizarre at Friday, 1 February 2008 at 2:43pm GMT

One factor in the South Carolina business that has not been commented on recently is the situation regarding the diocese's lawsuit against the secessionist parish of All Saints, Pawleys Island (soon to have two active AMiA bishops on its staff - it was commented on Mark Harris's site that they seem to proliferate like rabbits). This suit is currently on appeal from a lower State court which has ruled that TEC has limited standing in the matter since ownership of the church building hinges on a 1745 deed of gift. It seems clear, however, that but for the deed of gift the court would have awarded the property to the diocese and to the continuing congregation. I believe that the court has ruled in their favour with regard to financial assets and property acquired subsequent to the 1745 deed and not, therefore, subject to its terms. The diocese and its lawyers have to be well aware, therefore, of the likely consequences, in term of ownership of church property and assets, should it attempt to secede from TEC.

Posted by Lapinbizarre at Friday, 1 February 2008 at 2:58pm GMT

Lapinbizarre --

Very interesting -- all along I have suggested that SC just forget about choosing a new bishop after Salmon & say that Chuck Murphy was right all along (after all, the man consecrated at Murphy's side, John H. Rodgers, participated in the consecration of Mark Lawrence).

BTW -- isn't Bishop Scott-Joynt an outspoken advocate of liberalizing the church rules on divorce & remarriage (apparently the changes that benefit oneself are good and those that benefit others are "cancer").

Posted by Prior Aelred at Friday, 1 February 2008 at 9:53pm GMT

Scott-Joynt is right out of 1950's central casting, Prior Aelred - Alistair Sim without the sly flair. Sort of guy Americans caught in a Mrs Miniver time-warp adore and think typically English. The bishop's comment on the British press (I have now been able to connect to the speech) indicate that he knows better.

Posted by Lapinbizarre at Saturday, 2 February 2008 at 3:16am GMT
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