Comments: reporting of statement from the archbishops

I swear, does EVERYBODY in the CofE need to GET.A.LIFE...

...or is it just a joyless, whinging few? :-/

Posted by JCF at Wednesday, 18 June 2008 at 5:43am BST

I'm guessing that Sentamu doesn't like this because it gets him out of the news. If they'd had the service at 30,000 feet while skydiving he would have been apoplectic.

Posted by poppy tupper at Wednesday, 18 June 2008 at 10:17am BST

Almost certainly, the center cannot hold. Not sure I can even see one. Maybe this is why the pronouncements of the bishops sound a bit desperate. I feel for them. All my life, I've tried to understand conservatives (or the "orthodox" -- I'm happy to call people what they want to be called), but without much luck. I'm made a bit uncomfortable by my tentative conclusions, though -- that the difference between liberals and conservatives is one of both spiritual capacity and genetic/biological substrate. (For the latter, Google "Minnesota Twin Family Study" -- astonishing stuff).

Well, the happy thought here is that, over the long run, conservatives always loose. If the orthodox weren't so self-absorbed, they'd see that in the US, in Canada, and in Britain they have already lost the fight for the hearts of the young. They're toast; they just don't know it yet.

Posted by Peter of Westminster at Wednesday, 18 June 2008 at 10:19am BST

I'm guessing that Sentamu doesn't like this because it gets him out of the news. If they'd had the service at 30,000 feet while skydiving he would have been apoplectic.

Posted by: poppy tupper on Wednesday, 18 June 2008 at 10:17am BST

Be fair now, poppy, be fair !

poppy if they'd 'had the service at 30,000 feet while skydiving'--- let's be fair now --- Sentamu


would have taken the service himself !

Posted by L Roberts at Wednesday, 18 June 2008 at 11:53am BST

"I'm happy to call people what they want to be called"

I am no more God than they are "orthodox". Would you call me God just because I wanted to be called that? Sorry, this isn't in a snotty tone of dismissal of you, it's in a wry tone of dismissal of "their" claims to 'orthodoxy'. Jensen, as an example, can want to be called 'orthodox' till the Last Trump sounds but no amount of wanting on his part can make the things he teaches even close to 'orthodoxy'.

Posted by Ford Elms at Wednesday, 18 June 2008 at 12:53pm BST

"I am no more God than they are 'orthodox'."

Ho! I agree on both counts, Ford. At the very least, the "orthodoxy" of some conservatives seems upon close historical reflection of suspiciously recent advent. Christian "fundamentalism" was an early 20th century phenomenon, sparked by a pamphlet authored by two brothers in California -- those involved in the movement, however, quickly blurred their innovations and recast Christian history in their own light. So, too, our Anglican "orthodox." As a counter to their particular innovations in Christian sexual ethics, take a look at Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century, by John Boswell, The University of Chicago Press. One of the larger thematic arcs in this scholarly historical study shows the sexual ethical synthesis that "orthodox" believers everywhere lean upon is of fairly recent advent, developing roughly over the past two centuries.

Posted by Peter of Westminster at Thursday, 19 June 2008 at 6:41am BST

"I agree on both counts, Ford."

I'm glad you know I'm not God. I just speak for Him:-) As to Boswell, I have one of his books about gay marriage in premodern Europe, and I was fascinated that the Orthodox rite for pledging of Christian brotherhood was used into modern times in Albania, and, despite what the Orthodox officially say, local community people knew very well what it was for. The imagery of Sts. Cosmas and Damian was also very powerful. All the same, how solid is his scolarship? I have read, and not from Conservative conspiracy theorists, but from credible sources, that at times he gets into some dodgy areas. I'm neither qualified nor knowledgable enough about him to comment.

Posted by Ford Elms at Thursday, 19 June 2008 at 6:38pm BST
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