Comments: Fort Worth: some backpedaling on Rome

Hmm the preps in Fort Worth and Pittsburg are fascinating to watch, shifting, flowing, back and forth.

I read the chancellor's argument to be that, whatever views one may hold about the ethics of violating bonds and commitments of trust between, say, the diocese and TEC - the law will properly shelter those involved in a breach by defining that the diocesan-provincial relationship does not rise to the high Texas status of being a ficudiary trust.

If liberals or progressive believers were depending on this sort of clever parsing - so clearly indebted to state law where the diocese is after all located geographically for the time being at least - so clearly seeking legalistic shelter for dodgy intentions, especially those involving halftruths to hoodwink people, and money and property? - one can fairly imagine the laughter, the howls of derision from conservative believers, the self-contragulatory pats on the conservative minded backs all around.

See, one could expect to hear: There they go again.

Indeed.

Any believers - perhaps any observor at all - who sat at the famous councils of yore so claimed as faithful limits by so many conservative believers in Fort Worth preparing to depart would be able to acknowledge the breach of promise and trust involved in such departures.

Further, the history lesson seems clear: Those holier than thou Anglican believers whom TEC leaves pretty much alone to do their own holier than everybody else thang - including what is often claimed to be the highest possible believer mind concerning the subservience and limits on, say, women regardless of education or talents? - will nonetheless seek occasion to stir up trouble because others have not followed their own holier than everybody paths to being Anglican-Episcopalian.

Alas. Lord have mercy.

Posted by drdanfee at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 4:22pm BST

"We remain fully committed to the goal of this Diocese, as plainly stated by Bishop Iker, to realign..."

It does make one wonder why xIker has not been deposed from TEC already.

Lord have mercy!

Posted by JCF at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 4:55pm BST

.....Hmm the preps in Fort Worth and Pittsburg are fascinating to watch, shifting, flowing, back and forth.

Describes waves on the seashore....but alas Storms are coming.

Posted by David G at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 6:53pm BST

What is truly amusing is that Pittsburgh is quite low church, Calvinistic and evangelical, in the tradition that formed Trinity Seminary Ambridge. Fr. Worth, from what I have learned, is anything but. Lots of smoke and no girl zone, unlike "Quitsburgh". And yes, it is getting tiresome to keep hearing "orthodox" Anglicans. I suspect that many of us on this site have forgotten more of the Coverdale Psalter of the 1928 (1662?) book that most of them would even remember.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 7:07pm BST

Rowan has already shown us with some flair and panache that one may believe one thing and do another.


'I read the chancellor's argument to be that, whatever views one may hold about the ethics of violating bonds and commitments of trust between, say, the diocese and TEC - the law will properly shelter those involved in a breach by defining that the diocesan-provincial relationship does not rise to the high Texas status of being a ficudiary trust.

If liberals or progressive believers were depending on this sort of clever parsing ... '

Posted by Treebeard at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 8:19pm BST

I asked last Tuesday on an earlier thread, "Can anyone imagine an outcome in which Jack Iker will settle for a solution in which he will no longer be a bishop?" Here are four of his clergy - some of his strongest supporters - wolfing down crow - "regret", "deeply regret" - to prove the point.

Posted by Lapinbizarre at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 11:17pm BST

The flaw in http://www.fwepiscopal.org/resources/fiduciary.html
is:" are not trustees of a VALID trust in favor of TEC" (emphasis supplied)

The whole memo rests on the Dennis Canon and its predecessors being invalid

Posted by Tim Stewart at Sunday, 17 August 2008 at 11:30pm BST

This item in the recantation '4. We remain fully committed to the goal of this Diocese, as plainly stated by Bishop Iker, to realign with an Orthodox Anglican Province.' cannot coexist logically with the existence of direct dialogue between the four priests and the local RCC ordinary. Unless the future contains two realities: the diocese aligning with some Orthodox Anglican Province, but without these priests who have moved to Rome Sweet Home.

Posted by R at Monday, 18 August 2008 at 12:59pm BST

I doubt very much if the 'Anglican' churches in Africa would have put up with so much from one of their bishops. They seem to depose or discipline bishops very quickly and very easily for far less. Perhaps this IS an area where we should tow the African line?

Posted by Commentator at Monday, 18 August 2008 at 5:07pm BST

.....Hmm the preps in Fort Worth and Pittsburg are fascinating to watch, shifting, flowing, back and forth.

When you say "preps", do you mean preparations, or preppys (people who went to prep school, or at least live like they did, including not a few Episcopalians), or do you mean pERps, for perpetrators?

Posted by Conifer at Monday, 18 August 2008 at 7:21pm BST

Conifer, like you, many of us are 'pining' to try to find something sensible coming out of this mini-fiasco in Pittsburg.

Commentator is right when he says that the African Primates would never countenance such 'insurrection' from one of their diocesan bishops. There is the well-known case of one of the Primates 'de-frocking' one of his diocesan bishops, merely because he had the temerity to usggest that the sexuality issue ought to be discussed, and that homosexuals should be listened to.

Had Iker been a rebel (with or without a cause) in Africa, he would have been disposed of very quickly - without resort to the courtesy of a House of Bishops hearing. So why is TEC waiting on further evidence of disloyalty to TEC?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Tuesday, 19 August 2008 at 9:28am BST

"While it is our hope that TEC does not file frivolous lawsuits, we cannot guarantee that it will refrain from such a sad and abusive course of action".

With reference to the above statement, appearing over the signature of the Diocesan Chancellor of Fort Worth, one wonders whether he might consider the action of the Diocesan and his cohorts to be other than 'a sad and abusive course of action' - in their vilificiation of their national Church body and expecting that Church to be nice to them by handing over the property that has been paid for by past generation of TEC members?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Tuesday, 19 August 2008 at 9:36am BST

"Orthodox Anglican Province"

There ain't no such creature.

Posted by Ford Elms at Tuesday, 19 August 2008 at 2:55pm BST

Told you so..it was too good to be true.

all this talk of mass exodus to Rome whether it be in Fort Worth or England is pie in the sky.

Posted by Robert Ian williams at Wednesday, 20 August 2008 at 12:12am BST

Somehow the vision of the old lady schoolmarm/wicked witch of the west pedaling away on her old bike with Toto in the basket comes to mind, while the Texas twister slowly winds up over the horizon.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Wednesday, 20 August 2008 at 12:31am BST
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