Comments: Pittsburgh: the new diocese emerges

Sad but I am glad the Diocese has been purged of those who did not want to be there. Relieved that the new organization has developed so quickly - nothing like prompt action to instill spirit in the faithful. Regards and best wishes!

Posted by ettu at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 6:42pm BST

The Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh voted to leave The Episcopal Church. Even The New York Times knows that.

Posted by BabyBlue at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 7:42pm BST

I notice that the breakaway "Diocese of Pittsburgh" still cheekily lists those parishes who have remained in TEC (http://www.episcopalpgh.org/episcopal-parishes/) on their own website page of parishes (http://www.pitanglican.org/parishes)

Posted by MJ at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 7:57pm BST

Prayers of thanks for the integrity of these people and the speed with which the actual TEC moved to affirm them. (Would that had happened in some other dioceses before ministers were unfairly removed from office).

May God bless and guide these people to manifest the best of Christian tradition with faithfulness to the heart of scriptures.

Zechariah 3:6-10 "The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: “This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here. “ ‘Listen, O high priest Joshua and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,’ says the LORD Almighty, ‘and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day. “ ‘In that day each of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree,’ declares the LORD Almighty.”"

Zechariah 7:9-10 "“This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. In your hearts do not think evil of each other.’"

1 Peter 5:2-3 "Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock."

Posted by Cheryl Va. at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 7:59pm BST

That's nice, but they got the name of the Church wrong! It should be the Episcopal Church IN the United States of America, not OF...

Posted by BillyD at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 8:22pm BST

OK, they very quickly fixed it when it was brought to their attention. Maybe TA can change it's link text?

Posted by BillyD at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 8:28pm BST

Another parish has just defected to Southern Cone in Western new york. they are moving to a former Synagogue and not making lawywers wealthy in a hopeless case to maintain their building. They leave with integrity, not like the departing Pittsburgh crowd, who kept on saying how gracious and loving they were!

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 9:20pm BST

Prayers ascending for the new and (faithfulness-)improved Diocese of Pittsburgh!

Posted by JCF at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 9:58pm BST

"who kept on saying how gracious and loving they were!"

Well, you know, they can SAY it as much as they like, but sayin' don't make it so, or even believable.

Posted by Ford Elms at Thursday, 9 October 2008 at 11:17pm BST

Ford just watch the highlights of the Convention on the Stand firm web site....they keep on saying how gracious they are!

The lawyers will have a field day.

The Cathedral intends to serve both bishops..and Bishop Duncan is said to be happy with that..sharing his Cathedra with a liberal!

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 12:41am BST

"they are moving to a former Synagogue and not making lawywers wealthy in a hopeless case to maintain their building. They leave with integrity, not like the departing Pittsburgh crowd, who kept on saying how gracious and loving they were!"

Nor like Virginia's neo-Africans who want the silver AND the good china AND anything else they can steal.

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 12:52am BST

Bishop Duncan and company have jumped down a rabbit hole. Yes, it is a painful loss. But there is still an Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh, and saying otherwise don't make it so.

Posted by John B. Chilton at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 1:57am BST

As one whose church was hijacked by CANA and then successfully taken back for the use of present and future Episcopalians I would like to offer the following advice to the remaining faithful. Take strong, immediate action to reclaim stolen property. Ensure that new vestries are formed quickly. Do not hesitate, go with what you have others will rally to the cause.
Forgive and pray. Worship whenever you can.
It took us about two years to recover from the loss and the anger of separation. It can be done. This too shall pass

Posted by John at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 3:02am BST

Baby Blue may now well get back into her cot, shake her rattle and weep bitter tears of anguish - and why? Because TEC has now declared that the Faithful Remnant is the inheritor of the mantle discarded by the former bishop and his fellow Lemmings in Pittsburgh! -

"I give thanks for the work that the Standing Committee has undertaken and look forward
to learning of your progress as you move forward in this mission. You and the people of
the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh continue in my prayers and those of Episcopalians
across this Church. I remain
Your servant in Christ,
Katharine Jefferts Schori"

God Bless You, Bishop Katherine, and may the newly-purged and lawful TEC Diocese of Pittsburgh be raised up from the ashes of the old. in order to proclaim the true Gospel of Jesus Christ in Pennsylvania, U.S.A.

God Bless also the newly appointed Standing Committee of the legitimate TEC Diocese of Pittsburgh. May you be supported by the prayers and good will of those members of our Anglican Communion, world-wide, who would proclaim the justice and mercy of God to all people. May all those who have remained faithful to the loyal provenance of The Episcopal Church in Pittsburgh who have resisted the strident call to schism, be blessed with new life under a new Episcopal Leadership.

"My heart is inditing of a good matter. Alleluia,
Laus Deo!"

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 6:09am BST

"The Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh voted to leave The Episcopal Church. Even The New York Times knows that."

And a fool can declare himself king, but that still doesn't make it so if no one else recognizes him.

Posted by ruidh at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 3:53pm BST

Well according to current protocols, Duncan and company departing means very, very little in connection with the wider global communion unless they reach their final goals - replacing TEC as the historic national Anglican church, with Canterbury and ACC recognizing TEC replacement.

Many TEC parishes yet thrive, and even Pburgh may renew and thrive once released from the extra wind tunnel drag of all the realignment campaign preachments. Fact is, realignment saps even conservative witness to good news.

I suspect a while longer may be needed to see if Southern Cone leverage as such can be parlayed into the more strategic goals of finessing Canterbury and ACC to get as mean, as tough as displacement needs to succeed. As it looks now, FoCA is the next step after Southern Cone - but what will FoCA exactly manage to do to displace Canterbury. Will FoCA spend all its time, re-arranging its own very stylish consevo shoes in its own consevo realigned, purged, conformed ghettos and closets?.

Of course if Duncan and Co. are successful in displacing and replacing TEC, then consevo realigned believers have a template for tearing other national churches apart in their special holier than thou efforts to save all the rest of us Anglican believers from thinking, inquiring, or discerning in anything like modern best practice terms in our typical big tent, messy Anglican communion. Ahmanson for one is well on USA record as pushing the realignment folks for bigger and better displacement or replacement results.

This is a hugely grasping power ploy - making conformed discernment and even conformed confessions the key rule governing relationships, instead of the old typical Anglican practice of allowing relationships across differences to do what conformities fail to achieve in the long runs of world religious history. Can Duncan and Co over-reach? Have they in fact over-reached already? We wait to further weigh and see: Can realignment believers still draw effectively on the old style Anglican rule of relating across differences internal to themselves as part of the Southern Cone or internal to FoCA, while they tear the fundamental notions of leeway and differences apart, trash talking such manners if applied to anybody else, other than themselves?

Un-generous to a fault, then. Proud to be un-generous. Conservative, realigned. All frat boy stuff, and paddling? Thanks babyblue, sir, may I have another?

Posted by drdanfee at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 7:40pm BST

The Diocese of Pittsburgh is no longer part of TEC, therefore KJS should remove herself and any TEC deacon, priest, or bishop until they have permission granted from the ACSC.

Posted by Joe at Friday, 10 October 2008 at 9:11pm BST

"The Diocese of Pittsburgh is no longer part of TEC, therefore KJS should remove herself and any TEC deacon, priest, or bishop until they have permission granted from the ACSC."

I think you'll find that the Diocese of Pittsburgh *is* a part of TEC. http://www.episcopalpgh.org/

And why would the US Air Force's Air Command and Staff College have any say in this matter at all?

Posted by BillyD at Saturday, 11 October 2008 at 12:30am BST

"The Diocese of Pittsburgh is no longer part of TEC, therefore KJS should remove herself and any TEC deacon, priest, or bishop until they have permission granted from the ACSC. - Posted by Joe"

Because Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania is now in South America? Get real, Joe.

Lord have mercy!

Posted by JCF at Saturday, 11 October 2008 at 4:45am BST

Just one more case, here, of the Faithful Remnant of God's People surviving the depredation of the fallen branches, which have drifted of to South America. Messrs Duncan and Gregory may yet regret their precipitous move. All that remains is for the ACC to pronounce its 'null and void' verdict on the unwieldy trans-continental 'new alignment'

May God raise up the newly-emerging TEC Diocese for even greater witness to the Christian Gospel.
Anglicans around the world are offering prayers for the Faithful in TEC Pittsburgh. May you all be richly blessed.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Saturday, 11 October 2008 at 11:09am BST

JCF, you confuse national, political boundaries with ecclesiastical ones. Remember, at one time New York was under the authority of London (perhaps you recall that little St. Andrew's cross on the TEC shield? Ironic, isn't it?). TEC has no authority in Pittsburgh and any presence there is clearly a boundary crossing. Therefore, if, as TEC claims, they oppose such "interventions" they should stop playing the hypocrite and vacate Pittsburgh (and DSJ and - soon - DFW and DQ)

Posted by Joe at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 4:17am BST

Unfortunately the Diocese of london had no legal way of getting its property back...but TEC has.

Just as if the Labour Government tried to take over the Catholic Church in England and Wales (like the sixteenth century Elizabethan and Henrician regines did) and ..this time we would have the Courts on our side.

Come on Joe there is no comparison with the eighteenth century..your making yourself a laughing stock.

Thou shalt not steal.....and those leaving should reflect on that, and leave with dignity, turning their legal fund to a building fund.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 8:20am BST

"Just as if the Labour Government tried to take over the Catholic Church in England and Wales (like the sixteenth century Elizabethan and Henrician regines did) and ..this time we would have the Courts on our side." - RIW

Robert, would you please stop muddying the waters here on this blog. Your schizophrenic postings - those of a former Anglican Evangelical one-time ordinand, become pre-Vatican 2 Roman Catholic - are confusing to say the least. Perhaps you should offer yourself outright for undercover duties with F.i.F. They might appreciate your obvious taste for espionage. It just does not wash, Robert. Make your mind up about what stand you actually are trying make here - pro or anti!

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 10:51am BST

Joe:

Perhaps you should read again the canons of the churches involved...they all demark geographical boundaries to their ecclesiastical influence. Pittsburgh is clearly within the boundaries of TEC's canons...and decidedly not within those of the Southern Cone.


Anglicanism has always defined parishes, dioceses and provinces by geographic, political, and national boundaries.

Posted by Pat O'Neill at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 12:21pm BST

"Remember, at one time New York was under the authority of London (perhaps you recall that little St. Andrew's cross on the TEC shield? Ironic, isn't it?)"

Joe, stop while your, uh, behind. The St. Andrew's Cross on the ECUSA flag and shield has nothing to do with London. It's an allusion to the fact that we got our episcopal orders from Scottish bishops.

Posted by BillyD at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 12:44pm BST

Joe wrote:
Remember, at one time New York was under the authority of London (perhaps you recall that little St. Andrew's cross on the TEC shield? Ironic, isn't it?)

Eh? Shome mishtake shurely.

The St Andrews Cross is there because the nascent US church did not want their bishops to have to swear allegiance to the English Monarch and so approached the Scottish Episcopal Church (one of the few anglican churches that does not trace its origin back to the CofE) to consecrate its bishops. So edinburgh or Aberdeen rather than London, although I don't think we required them to be under Scottish bishop's authority.

Kennedy

Kennedy

Posted by Kennedy at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 2:15pm BST

Its interesting that Seabury who was consecrated by the non state Episcopalians of Scotland was high Church and the bishops who were later consecrated by the Archbishop of Canterbury
( after an Act of Parliament had been passed) were liberals. It was only the ability to compromise by presiding Bishop White who prevented two Episcopal chrches being formed in the US..but sadly because of Seabury the Methodists were lost to the Church. That is why there are ten milion Methodists in the USA and under three million Anglicans.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Sunday, 12 October 2008 at 4:28pm BST
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