Comments: Quincy votes to depart

No surprise.

God willing, like Pittsburg, we can look forward to greeting the faithful remnant that will remain with the TEC. If there isn't one, that also speaks for iself and it is good that they are no longer part of TEC so that TEC's name is not associated with such repression of diversity.

Posted by Cheryl Va. at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 12:18am GMT

"He said to them, 'It is written, "My house shall be called a house of prayer"; but you make it a den of robbers.'" (Matt.21:13)

Following Our Lord, let the evictions commence!

Posted by JCF at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 2:02am GMT

It sounds terribly grand that a Diocese is leaving and yet there are barely 1200 communicants in it!

Posted by Robert Ian williams at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 7:20am GMT

I believe the voting numbers were such that a respectable minority in both lay and clerical groups will remain as the continuing faithful TEC group. One blog opines it is the cathedral that will remain as the TEC presence. In any event, far from a unanimous vote to depart. Next up is one of the Texas dioceses.

Posted by ettu at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 11:38am GMT

"It sounds terribly grand that a Diocese is leaving and yet there are barely 1200 communicants in it!"

Grand indeed that such a small number of valiant defenders of the Gospel could have such faith as to srike out on their own, free of the taint of Godless hell bound liberalism, surrounded by a hostile society that hates them for their righteousness and wants nothing more than to see them destroyed, and has even taken over the Church whose dust they now shake off their sandals. One has to admire their fortitude and faith in the face of such oppression! One of the Essentials congos here, they being so righteous that the less than 200 of them can't seem to form one congregation, but exist as two, has called itself after St. Steven. Sorry, that still gives me a chuckle. I picture Don Harvey hands outstretched saying piteously "Oh, the ankles are fine now, and the wrists are getting better, but my forehead aches on times! It's the thorns, you know."

Posted by Ford Elms at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 1:47pm GMT

True, RIW. Word on the street is that Quincy is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and has been for years.

Funny--I thought that the "orthodox" dioceses were all growing so fast they couldn't pack everybody into the church without a shoehorn, but that doesn't seem to be the case for Quincy, as with quite a few other fundamentalist dioceses.

Posted by JPM at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 3:35pm GMT

So, let me get this right, what you're saying Cheryl, JCF, and Robert is, "...those grapes were probably sour, anyway." Nice.

Posted by Joe at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 4:47pm GMT

The Diocese of Quincy, according to the charts on the Episcopal Church website, has an ASA of less than 900 people. The largest church in the diocese, the Cathedral, has an ASA of 250-300 people showing un Sundays. The Cathedral, as of the vote, is more than likely staying with the Episcopal Church according to people in the diocese. The majority of the other churches, many of which have an ASA of 10 people on Sundays, have already joined the Southern Cone as have all priests and deacons.

Posted by Josh L. at Saturday, 8 November 2008 at 6:16pm GMT

Taken on by a province which is Evangelical and protestant..and was brought together by the anti Catholic South American Missionary Society . What hypocrisy.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Sunday, 9 November 2008 at 7:30am GMT

""By realigning with the Anglican Church of the Southern Cone, we are now back in full communion with the majority of over 75 million Anglicans around the world." - PJ STAR.Com -

The re-Asserters of Quincy are surely kidding themselves, if they think that leaving the Episcopal Church in the US 're-aligns' them with the Anglican Communion around the world. How can this act of desertion possibly qualify them to be recognised as 'members' of the Communion, when they have 'dismembered' themselves voluntarily.
It seems like another episode of "Alice Thorugh the looking glass". One expects the White Rabbit to appear on the scene very soon.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 9 November 2008 at 9:41am GMT

The vote to depart for the new virtual realms of the Southern Cone is no surprise at all. This exit in a high huff has been carefully engineered over several years, more or less strictly according to the IRD-inspired meanness as embodied plainly ahead of time by the infamous Chapman Memo. Read the memo, tick off the steps in realignment.

The big clue here is the hubris of denying church membership and authority from above, while seeking to enforce a localized conservative religious version of just that, within the virtually departing people. Sending new certificates to all clergy, insisting that remaining Episcopalians had to write void across the uppity-nosed new Southern Cone certificates?

A signal moment that pretty much says it all, so far as this mean new conservative Anglican Realignment Campaign.

Still the sense of crisis and urgency is real enough, since all data so far show that just these strict traditionalists have increasingly lost the hearts and minds of a surprisingly varied range of possible devotees or recruits, say, under thirty years old?

While Realignment is busy patting itself on the back for being so high and mighty, the rest of us are just keeping on, progressive as ever, willing to investigate or inquire or newly weigh difficult questions according to that typical Anglican method mix of empirical best practices, the scriptures read carefully and complexly, and our rich storehouse of traditions equally seriously and variously discerned.

Unless huge changes occur - IRD wishes it just so? - in the under-thirty segments - Realignment will simply separate itself in order to praise its own merit among its own special choirs. The sea shift beneath all the hot buttons seems too varied to be barely comprehensible - but a whiff of correcting and changing away from exclusively penal iterations of believerhood is strongly in the air. Quincy or no.

Posted by drdanfee at Monday, 10 November 2008 at 12:08am GMT

It is amazing to me how un-Christian many of the sentiments on this page appear to be. The fact that any of our brothers and sisters would leave the church is one of great pain. Remember, Jesus left the 99 sheep to look for the one. I would remind many of you that the Episcopal Church by numerical standards is also shrinking and losing many members regardless of how many diocese stay put. What kind of commentary is all of this infighting, hardened pride, and obsession with property rather than compassion saying about us loyal Episcopalians. The fact is that for most people in our country, the Episcopal Church is only important to itself.

Posted by J at Tuesday, 11 November 2008 at 3:50pm GMT


Your comment is compassionate.

You might not be aware of the degree of shunning and exclusion that has been done to "non-suitables" by conservatives.

Philip Yancey gives embarrassing testimony from a few decades ago. There are liberals, catholics, women and/or GLBTs who can testify to aggressive measures to exclude them from their local diocese's parishes and communities still today.

TEC is making a stand to protect those who were previously unprotected. Those who complain that there is no capitulation to institutionalised bullying might complain but it is usually a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by Cheryl Va. at Wednesday, 12 November 2008 at 7:42am GMT

"The fact that any of our brothers and sisters would leave the church is one of great pain."

It is, and I am not for schism. But what about all the gay people who have left? What about the gay kids in those GAFCON parishes? How many of them are squirming till they get out from under Mom and Dad's control so they don't have to be exposed to this kind of hatred and bigotry? What emotional damage has been done to them, and how much will they hate the Church and God Himself when they are finally free? How many others have there been who have also left the Church as a result of this kind of hatred? I feel bad that they think they have to leave, I honestly do, and I understand the pain of feeling like the Church you grew up in has changed around you, apparently with little other than sociopolitical justification. But they are not the only ones hurting in all this, as a matter of fact they have caused an awful lot of hurt as well.

Posted by Ford Elms at Wednesday, 12 November 2008 at 7:19pm GMT

"It is amazing to me how un-Christian many of the sentiments on this page appear to be." - J -

Dear J, If you think the correspondence on this site to be 'un-Christian', I suggest youi take a look at some of the other sites - the oxymoronically-named 'Virtue-on-line' blog, for instance.

If arguing for tolerance seems sometimes to be intolerant, you do have a point of course. But how else is one to enter the argument? After all, Jesus is known to have been intolerant of some of the attitudes of the Scribes and Pharisees. How intolerant of him was it, for instance, to turn over the tables of the money-changers in the Temple?

I'm sure Jesus had people - especially among the Scribes and Pharisees - who would have found Jesus 'un-Jewish' in his castigation of their inhumane treatment of the marginalised of his own day. Does that mean that he was wrong in how he countered their behaviour?

Granted, we all get a little het-up in our arguments from time to time, but to stand in the wings and do nothing to counter what we perceive to be attitudes of injustice would surely render us guilty of a greater sin?

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Wednesday, 12 November 2008 at 9:55pm GMT

"I'm sure Jesus had people - especially among the Scribes and Pharisees - who would have found Jesus 'un-Jewish' in his castigation of their inhumane treatment of the marginalised of his own day. Does that mean that he was wrong in how he countered their behaviour?"

Careful with this one, Fr. Ron. We are called to be more Christlike. But each side believes itself to be more Christlike. But, if we are to exhibit Christlike anger, who is to be the object of that anger? Liberals who want to revisit things we have believed for 2000 years in the light of modern understanding, or conservatives who believe a certain group of people is not only not truly human, but is seeking to destroy all that is good and holy in the world, is such a danger that the faithful must separate themselves from those who even speak kindly of that group of people, a group that deserves jail if not death? Oh. I think I just answered my question.

Posted by Ford Elms at Thursday, 13 November 2008 at 11:18am GMT

"In one of the final legislative acts of the synod, members approved a resolution submitted by the Rt. Rev. Donald Parsons, Bishop of Quincy from 1973-1987, requesting “that the leaders of The Episcopal Church seek with the Diocese of Quincy to find ways in which the two entities might carry out the mission" - Living Church -

This might be a possibility if the re-Asserters of Quincy were willing to stay within the TEC family. However, since the departing bishop and clergy have decided to sever their connection with TEC, such a 'joint' mission is not possible.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Friday, 14 November 2008 at 10:32am GMT
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