Comments: Fort Worth decides

Thank Mr. (Fr.?) Fraser, for being brave, honest and willing to hit the nail on the head. It's nothing but institutional bigotry following fearful minds of single issue-obsessed religious fanatics who are acting antithetically to the founding precepts of the United States.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 2:28pm GMT

So was just looking at the Episcopal Cafe site and they had this interesting comment about the numbers that are leaving the TEC. Looks like it will be less than 2% of the total membership. Go here to see
Fiona - an interested Canadian Anglican

Posted by Fiona Brownlee at Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 5:08pm GMT

Hmm, to my reading, one garners a sense of just how tense, polarized, and heavy the differences in Ft W have become - reading in between the lines.

Iker has a lot to answer for, and no doubt by going where he goes, he is already answering for his antiwomen, antigay rhetoric.

One prays that all the Remaining Episcopals in Ft w (including the progressive ones, or middles, or remaining conservatives) will still be able to uphold historic big tent church life.

The false witness of Fr. Wooten against everybody else in the Wichita Times article quotes is typical, yet still rather breath-taking. If he really means what he preaches to the journalists, one would suppose he might fear that the very walls and floors and ceilings and pews had become residences for demonic powers of non-conservative change.

So far as women, gays, progressive believers, empirical hypothesis testing best practices, and all the other schismatic hot button issues may go - perhaps somebody should gently tell Fr Wooten and others in Ft W that you cannot loudly preach how proud you are to be faithfully flat earth believers, while you still plan to be involved in the next NASA flight to the moon or the orbiting space station. Not, that is, if you really mean all the flat earth stuff you are still patting yourself happily on the back for preaching about all your typical new conservative realignment change scapegoats.

Well, which is it? Is the earth flat as revealed in scriptures understood by huge numbers of saints praising God for creating the earth beneath and the heavens above it in a Ptolemaic System? Or do we change our historic reading of those passages, along with the functional-critical emphasis of our working reader methods, to allow for an earth planet in a predictable picture of planetary orbits around Sol?

I still say: Don't buy a used car from these people - until you have had the merchandise checked out as independently as possible. Their own self-interest is so godly they are blinded to the beams in their own eyes while they look meanly for the mots in everybody else. Hmm, a clue:Is it APNA or APNEA? With an E for evangelical in that special closed-minded rightwing USA sense?

Posted by drdanfee at Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 7:04pm GMT

God Bless Bishop Iker for standing firm and for contending for the Faith once for all delivered to the saints. God bless the diocese of Fort Worth, now out from under the Episcopal Church USA. May he and they know the freedom they deserve in Christ.

Posted by Ian Montgomery at Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 7:42pm GMT

Lord have mercy.
Christ have mercy.
Lord have mercy.

God bless the Episcopal Church, and the stalwart faithful in the Episcopal Diocese of Fort Worth (may they receive a faithful shepherd, soon!).

Posted by JCF at Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 9:00pm GMT

"May he and they know the freedom they deserve in Christ."

How, exactly, did they not enjoy "the freedom they deserve in Christ" as part of PECUSA?

Posted by BillyD at Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 10:50pm GMT

There is a natural tendancy for faithful Episcopalians to castigate the break-aways, but for Christ's sake, we should mourn their leaving, not cast stones. Bishop Iker is outspoken in his opinions, but one needn't demonize him just because one holds other views. He is not a mysogynist; he holds a position of conscience. Perhaps if we judged less and cared about one another more these unhappy divisions could be avoided.

Posted by Aquila at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 2:43am GMT

May he and they know the freedom they deserve in Christ.

Posted by: Ian Montgomery on Saturday, 15 November 2008 at 7:42pm GMT

Right, the freedom to continue to hate their brothers, sisters and neighbors at The Body of Christ and the freedom to steal from TEC...the freedom to continue with the unchecked ¨false witness¨...what other seemingly selfish and drunkenlike acts of self-centered demoralization and temporary freedom to you think they´ll enjoy?

Posted by Leonardo Ricardo at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 5:19am GMT

"God Bless Bishop Iker for standing firm and for contending for the Faith once for all delivered to the saints."

Sounds good , but on careful analysis it is not the case.

"Orthodox "Fort Worth has ordained women deacons, allowed them to preach...which is a novelty, and goes against tradition as much as Women priests and Bishops.

"Orthodox" Fort Worth allows divorce and re-marriage..and this is an attraction to many ex-Roman Catholics. Fort Worth's strongest area of growth is amongst this grouping particularly Hispanics.

Bishop Iker is not leading them to the Promised land...he wants to take them to another Babylon, a new " province " where women are ordained as priests. In fact their new province of Southern Cone allows women priests in its Canadian and pittsburgh outposts.

Furthermore Bishop Iker has NOT asked to be removed from the GAFCON grouping if its Secretary,Archbishop Peter Jensen is not removed for allowing a violation of " Catholic Order."
Not that Archbishop Jensen has challenged Bishop Iker on his continued violation of the 39 articles.

Some orthodox are obviously more orthodox than other orthodox!

However the most tragic lie of all is their pretence that they are being Christian and generous by allowing those parishes who want to remain in TEC to keep their propoerty. In fact that is the litmus test of their claim..think of the stoy of King Solomon and the two women fighting over the baby and apply the same principle.

These people departing must know in their heart that TEC owns the property. However if I was 815 I would be considering legal prosecution of Southern Cone for facilitating this.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 6:42am GMT

"The gospel work to which Jesus calls us demands the best efforts of faithful people from many theological and social perspectives, and The Episcopal Church will continue to welcome that diversity." - Bishop Katherine Jefferts-Schori -

This is the sort of radical 'inclusiveness' in the Gospel that the wider Anglican Communion could well do to emulate. Bishop Katherine is here demonstrating the charism for which she was made a Bishop on the Church of God. Leadership is not limited to the male of the species, and many of us in the wider Church are envious of the quality of leadership you in TEC are getting today in the problems facing all of us in our attempts to make the gospel relevant to everyone -in Canada, America, and around the world.

May God Bless Bishop Katherine, and all of you who generously support her inspired leadership in TEC. May her example give courage to others of our Primates around the world to fight against prejudice wherever it is found - in both the Church and the World.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 10:12am GMT

"God Bless Bishop Iker for standing firm and for contending for the Faith once for all delivered to the saints."

Actually, it appears to be that he hasn't the slightest clue about what that Faith is.

Posted by ruidh at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 5:38pm GMT

Maybe it's the rest of us who don't have the slightest clue. Maybe we have just been kidding ourselves all these centuries (I sometimes feel that old) with this "Love thy neighbour" business. Maybe the "transformative power of God" isn't really about restoration of Creation to a state of Grace after all, perhaps it IS to be found in the degree to which fear of punishment can force conformity to particular social norms. Maybe demonizing people you disagree with IS actually a Gospel value. I mean, it's not like modern day conservative Anglicans invented it. Maybe spreading misinformation, making yourself out a martyr, and provoking people just so they can reaffirm that sense of martyrdom IS actually what Christianity is all about. Maybe judging people and condemning them sight unseen IS Christianity, and it's us who are wrong with our love of neighbour and all that rot. It certainly is what the World thinks the Gospel is.

Posted by Ford Elms at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 6:32pm GMT

Just prior to the actual FW vote, a young lady came forward to speak, and she asked this poignant question.." Where will you run, in fifteen years time when the Archbishop of Canterbury is a woman? " The comment was not appreciated by Bishop Iker.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Sunday, 16 November 2008 at 8:18pm GMT

Maybe it's the rest of us who don't have the slightest clue."

I am prepared to learn that by beliefs are worong in some fundamental way. If we look back in history at the wide variety of beliefs, practice and actions taken in the name of Christ, one thing is patently clear -- almost everyone gets something wrong.

It's a good thing, then, that we are justified by faith and not by belief.

Posted by ruidh at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 4:08am GMT

"It's a good thing, then, that we are justified by faith and not by belief."

I really don't think there are that many conservatives who understand the difference, which is another of the roots of the problem.

Posted by Ford Elms at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 11:17am GMT

God bless Bishop Iker that in the 1990s he swore an affadavit ( to prevent a departing congregation taking their building to Antioch!) affirmming that property in the Diocese of Fort Worth is held by the diocese in trust for the national Church. Not even the most right wing of Southern Baptist Texas Judges will be able to get around that one.

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 11:18pm GMT

"God bless Bishop Iker!" - R.I.W. -

Robert, can you arrange for your friend, former Bishop Iker, to be welcomed into the fellowship of your Roman Catholic Church?

This might save a lot of heartache for the future members of the 'Church of the Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans in North America'. They might then be persuaded that Rome is a safer Sanctuary than what is being proposed for them in Chicago on December 3rd, 2008.

Bishop Iker already 'has mitre, will travel'.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Thursday, 20 November 2008 at 10:43pm GMT
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