Comments: more reports of NEAC

This is a good a definition of entryism as is needed (Chris Sugden):

"We refuse to abandon our space in the Church of England. ...We will keep formal administrative links with the formal Church of England, but our real identity is with Global Anglicanism as defined by the Jerusalem statement and declaration.

GAFCON is our connection to the Global Anglican Communion. The GAFCON Primates and bishops are the true successors to John Stott. The Canterbury network is unsure and even confused about what Global Anglicanism means...."

Turnbull and Sugden are the "vanguard" of the evangelicals, to push this agenda through regardless of the chaos of the NEAC meeting later on.

Posted by Pluralist at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 4:16am GMT

"the Church of England professes the faith uniquely revealed in the Holy Scriptures and set forth in the catholic creeds"

"express our support for the Jerusalem Declaration"

Well, they should make up their minds. Both these statements cannot be true at the same time.


"For ten years clear orthodox biblical and Christian teaching about marriage has been flouted in some Anglican provinces, dioceses and parishes around the world. No action has been taken. Protestors have been deposed, removed from their orders, and sued for their property: not only in North America."

Ho for the war! Hold the Fort! How long? Not long! My God, could this be more self aggrandizing and righteously indignant? THEY have "flouted" "Christian teaching on marriage" and not been punished!!! Oh the horror! As opposed to all these righteous Nouveau "orthodox" who not only manifestly do not know the meaning of their grandly self assumed title, but who equally flout Christian teaching. But it isn't traditional teaching on marriage, though, so that's OK. I mean, loving one another, not lying, not scheming against one's fellows, not trusting God, they are all pretty easy to justify, but not understanding the importance of having the right sets of dirty bits under the blankets of an evening, well, that cannot be allowed to go unpunished! And "protestors", no less! "Their property". Well doesn't that just say it all? Obviously not, since I continue.

Was it Cromwell addressing the long Parliament from which we get "You have sat too long for any good you have been doing. In the name of God, go!" And I think this is the first time I have expressed the sentiment that we would be better off without this bunch of selfdeluded, sancitmonious, selfaggrandizing, powerhungry, Holier Than Thous.

Posted by Ford Elms at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 1:41pm GMT

"GAFCON carries all the wrong messages for English Anglicans." - Pete Broadbent on FULCRUM -

SO: Sugden and Broadbent already at loggerheads over the threat of Evangelical loyalty to GAFCON! What a fascinating meeting it must have been. However, at least Bishop Pete recognises some debt of loyatly to the ABC, the Church of England, and the Anglican Communion.

One can only hope that cooler heads will prevail amongst the majority of Evangelicals in the Church of England, and that the disastrous path of division being wrought by the disaffected at GAFCON will be stemmed before it is too late.

The intent of FOCA in North America to form their own provincial type of 'Anglicanism' in the USA and Canada must not be allowed to distract the rest of us from pursuing the path of the Gospel - which is meant to be Good News to the poor.

It may well be that the new FOCA province will shrivel on the vine - like the other umpteen breakaway churches which have individually come together to try to revive their 'common cause' in opposition to the prophetic witness of TEC and the Anglican Church of Canada.

While regretting the breakaway movement, (and the direct influence of the Primate of the Southern Cone, in hosting them) we can't allow the action of intentional schismatics to halt the mission of the Church, which is meant to bring freedom from opression wherever it is to be found.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 8:56pm GMT

“If you don’t want a vote, fine”, said Turnbull from the chair. “In that case the Church of England Evangelical Council will take its own decision.” From the audience: “Then why consult us?” Turnbull: “I would appreciate if you did not interrupt me.” Someone else in the audience: “Depends what you say.” - Wim Houten -
Reporter from the Dutch Evengelical Press.

This extract from proceedings at the NEAC Meeting which followed on from the action of the Principal of Wycliffe Hall, Oxford (Chair of CEEC) in distributing a last minute Motion of Support for GAFCON; describes the tension among the people present.

This should alert the mainline Evangelicals in the Church of England to the intention of those, like Messers Sugden and Turnbull, to bull-doze them into a mindless following of the antics of the dissident faction within the Communion who are about to set up a rival Anglican Province - under the banner of FOCA - in North America.

This thumbing of the proverbial nose at the ABC and Lambeth should be stopped in its tracks. Let us hope that the ongoing investigation of the irregularities at Wycliffe Hall might achieve the rooting out of those, like Dr. Turnbull and Mr Sugden, whose intention is to destabilise the world-wide Anglican Communion by their puritanical methods of 'ethnic cleansing'.

We in other Provinces of the Communion are very much looking forward to their com-uppance.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Monday, 17 November 2008 at 9:36pm GMT

As one who has practiced hardball politics and was once acknowledged as among the very best floor fight coordinators in a Canadian political party, I find Turnbull's actions amateurish, inept, counterproductive and simply bizarre.

As a Christian, I find them scandalous.

Posted by Malcolm+ at Tuesday, 18 November 2008 at 5:06am GMT

Ron, Do you really think that the present Bishop of Liverpool has the stomach to take on Turnbull. Bishop Jones will do exactly what your bishops are doing about Nelson diocese, brush the problem under the carpet. Let another lot of bishops pick up the pieces, when the whole matter comes to a head. Interestingly can a diocese opt out of the New Zealand Provincial Constitution?

Posted by Robert Ian Williams at Tuesday, 18 November 2008 at 6:59am GMT

Robert,

I think you should ask the newly-installed bishop of your former Nelson Diocese, which hosted you and paid for your theological education before you crossed the Tiber, about that. Only he can tell you whether he can take his diocese out of the N.Z. Province. I cannot.

Reqarding your question about the Bishop of Liverpool's intentions regarding any sort of censure of Mr. Turnbull, perhaps you need to communicate directly with him on this issue.
Maybe you could ask your own Roman Catholic Bishop in Liverpool - he may just know the answer.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Tuesday, 18 November 2008 at 10:32am GMT

Less than fulsome support for CEEC from David Phillips at Church Society, see Evangelical equivocation at
http://www.evangelicals.org/news.asp?id=937

Posted by Simon Sarmiento at Wednesday, 19 November 2008 at 6:53pm GMT

"The evangelical movement in the Church of England has never been united but the differences within it today seem far greater than in the past and they surfaced at the meeting. It may be that this is better than having them fester in the background but it was not a particularly edifying meeting." - David Phillips,
General Secretary, Church Society

Perhaps Doctor Turnbull, and the other Doctor in the GAFCON Camp, Mr. Sugden, need to withdraw and lick their wounds from this latest spat on the Evangelical Front. Clearly, most of those present at this meeting have shown their disdain for the manipulastive efforts of these two doctors as mere quackery.

After this debacle, surely CEEC can no longer be seriously accepted as 'The Controlling Voice' of Church of England Evangelicals.

Posted by Father Ron Smith at Thursday, 20 November 2008 at 10:16pm GMT
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