Comments: Rochester: further media coverage

"Speculation that Dr. Nazir Ali might take a leadership role in the third province movement in the US was downplayed by its leaders, who noted that there was no shortage of bishops in the breakaway group."

A beautiful example of British understatement.

Posted by Rob Leduc at Monday, 30 March 2009 at 5:17pm BST

"Signing up for a declaration that describes the Archbishop of Canterbury as an apostate for his tolerance of liberal views on homosexuality was not a way to endear himself to his colleagues" -- Andrew Brown
That's a masterful example of understatement. +Nazir Ali probably royally ticked people off over that, and therefore has no other place to go in the official Anglican Communion?
Archbishop Williams is an apostate because he publicly expresses occasional compassion towards GLBT people? GAFCON would love +Nazir Ali. Heck, they might make him their second Primate -- after ++Akinola but of course!
If anyone knows of a website that expands on Mr. Brown's statement about +Nazir Ali's "fierce monotheism" critique of both Roman Catholic and Muslim veneration of saints, could you please post it?

Posted by peterpi at Monday, 30 March 2009 at 8:29pm BST

His criticisms of Roman Catholicism came a couple of years back; the stuff about Sufi saints is not on the web because I never put it there: we were talking in a radio studio (without the radio) on the campus at Canterbury. But it made a great impression on me.

Posted by Andrew Brown at Tuesday, 31 March 2009 at 7:47am BST

A question or two if I may, Andrew. What exactly are you going to miss? A boxing partner?

After the description of him in your article the man doesn't sound like he should be a priest in a broad church like CofE, let alone a bishop. If his only purpose in the church was someone to endlessly argue with--as you, the American bishop in Europe, and others imply, why put on the somber "that's too bad" face--just jump up and down with joy(ok maybe not dignified enough, a simple "good riddance"?) with the rest of the progressives.
Talk about damning with faint praise, why not leave the "that's too bad" to the conservatives that mean it?

Posted by Chris H. at Tuesday, 31 March 2009 at 1:45pm BST

An insightful analysis from the well informed Robert Tong can be found here http://www.sydneyanglicans.net/news/communion/will_canterbury_follow_rochester/
It includes the comment that "a second Gafcon is on the cards".

Posted by John Sandeman/ Obadiah Slope at Tuesday, 31 March 2009 at 11:21pm BST

"Insightful"? "Well-informed"?

"Tendentious" is the word which springs to mind on reading Tong's piece.

Posted by cryptogram at Wednesday, 1 April 2009 at 9:26am BST

John Sandeman/ Obadiah Slope: "An insightful analysis from the well informed Robert Tong..."

Ah, yes, the same 'insightful' and 'well informed' Mr Tong who wrote, regarding the recent Roman Catholic Mass in York Minster in honour of Mary Ward:

"The Archbishop of York and the Minster authorities should hang their collective heads in shame."
http://www.sydneyanglicans.net/news/communion/a_second_chance_at_reformation/

This was in support of Sydney bishop Glenn Davies' attack on the same:

"Does it not strike you as strange that the great Reformation truths which were hammered out in the 16th century could be so blatantly set aside by the celebration of a Roman Catholic Mass in the Church of England?... Yet what of the struggles of Cranmer, Ridley and Latimer who died at the stake for what they believed, and who vehemently warned people against the evils of the Mass?...Has the Church of England now publicly proclaimed a blasphemous fable and a dangerous deceit?"
http://www.sydneyanglicans.net/news/communion/wheres_the_reformation_now/

If this is the form of Anglicanism Mr Tong and his GAFCON associates wish to promote, then I want nothing to do with it, or them, and I have no particular interest in what he has to say.

Posted by MJ at Wednesday, 1 April 2009 at 11:51am BST

Chris H: call me bored, call me perverse; I like people who disagree with me who know stuff that I don't; and I get very bored of the tribal sentiment among liberals, as among conservatives. Broad churches are to a surprisingly large extent made up of people who think they are in narrow ones.

With that said, I didn't write that the C of E will miss him, and I don't think it will.

Posted by Andrew Brown at Wednesday, 1 April 2009 at 9:03pm BST

These signs of the times indicate as much, that Christendom as we thought we knew it, is over? Has long been over? We are returning to an era much more like the early, pre-Constantinian centuries, when a variety of ways to follow Jesus of Nazareth (along with a variety of ways to understand what in the world one was doing) existed?

GAFCON and/or SydneyEvos want to own the brand name, as much as they want to strictly conform not only practices but understandings. Theirs is a perfect religious storm, on display in a crystal clear bottle - determned, small tent Anglican stuff.

The notion that Nazir-Ali or Sydney or GAFCON offers a way forward in a post-modern, cross-cultural, educated and connected believer time would be laughable if conservative evangelical mind control were not simplistically equated with faith in just that very manner.

Still, admire Nazir-Ali for not being as devious and deceitful in his conservatisms as, say, xDuncan? All due props.

Posted by drdanfee at Wednesday, 1 April 2009 at 9:09pm BST

Yes, there is nothing insightful ever written by those who lead the Sydney Diocese. Sadly I have to live amongst them but not for much longer.

Posted by Brian Ralph at Wednesday, 1 April 2009 at 9:15pm BST

What Andrew Brown misses Pitcher covers, together they make a credible backdrop for the resignation.

As a matter of interest when LGCM wrote to all the Global South leaders (and their English episcopal supporters) back in 2005 asking them to support the human rights of LGBT people even if they wanted the Church purged of their active presence - the only reply came from Nazir Ali, he committed himself to justice and equity for all gay people.

Nazir Ali has no intention of vacating the future scene, it just remains to be seen what great good/mischief he intends to play out - both characters are easily within this man's considerable repertoire.

Posted by Martin Reynolds at Thursday, 2 April 2009 at 1:57pm BST

This is encouraging and moving; and to the bishop's credit.

'As a matter of interest when LGCM wrote to all the Global South leaders (and their English episcopal supporters) back in 2005 asking them to support the human rights of LGBT people even if they wanted the Church purged of their active presence - the only reply came from Nazir-Ali, he committed himself to justice and equity for all gay people.'

I felt rather sad on reading that he wouldn't be missed, as we all hope to be missed, as it means we have been valued, in some way or other. I say this, having found his views hard for me to take.

I admire him taking a step into the unknown, rather than staying the comfort of a set post, home and income. Change is daunting.


Posted by Rev L Roberts at Thursday, 2 April 2009 at 8:36pm BST
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