Comments: ABC reacts to news from General Convention

What an unfortunate comment by the Archbishop!

Throughout the process of ACNA setting up its schism in North America, he has been repeatedly asked to support the Episcopal Church and disown the schismatics, yet has said absolutely NOTHING. Yet, when the overwhelming majority of the laity and clergy of TEC give expression to what is, after all, the sensus fidelium, he intervenes immediately, even before the bishops have voted, to try to influence the outcome.

There is something very wrong with his view of how the Church works here. TEC cannot operate in defiance of the sensus fidelium in the reality-ignoring way which the C of E bishops are used to. If two thirds of the fathful believe that discrimination is wrong, then there is no point in trying to cajole them to act otherwise. Such tactics only work in England becase the laity are so supine: but then they are also losing interest in their national church fast, perhaps as a result of a history of such poor, and essentially high-handed, governance

Posted by Fr Mark at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 12:38pm BST

After TEC's gracious use of restraint in the adoption of B033 resulted in ACNA, CANA, Confessing Anglicans, -Duncan, -Iker, -Scholfield, Quittsburgh, Uganda, Nigeria, Truro Parish, it should come as no surprise that we are sick and tired of being told to hold off in delivering justice in the spirit of the Lord, while our property is stolen and countless funds are wasted on litigation (when it is surely needed elsewhere). And there have been many careers trashed through B033, as I know of at least two individuals (one a Dean of my cathedral) that were denied in a Reading-like dismissal of their qualifications due to this one issue.

The actions of the dissenters have added fuel to the reactions in Anaheim, and the PB's warning of that this should be not allowed to happen in the U.K., should serve as a rebuke to ++RW in playing Lord Chamberlain to the likes of outright bigots.

We offered restraint when B033 was railroaded through at the end of Columbus, and have been treated like this by the AC, so don't anyone be surprised when we say take your hatred and shove it.

Posted by choirboyfromhell at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 1:00pm BST

I am rapidly reaching the point where I think the Lambeth Quadrilateral is no longer operative, so long as the other provinces of the Communion insist on telling the North American provinces what they can and cannot do regarding internal matters.

Posted by Pat O'Neill at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 1:13pm BST

There never was a moratorium. All B033 did, contrary to the Gospel, the doctrine of the Episcopal Church, and the non-discrimination canons of the same, was to "urge restraint" by not consenting to election of bishops whose manner of life posed a challenge to the wider church. It is a recommendation (and a bad one), not a moratorium.

D025 calls on the Episcopal Church to maintain our relationships with other Anglican Christians and calls us back to the discernment process called for in the canons pertaining to the ordained ministry, including the non-discrimination canons.

Archbishop Rowan's regret is well known and was taken under advisement. My hope and prayer is that our bishops will act boldly as apostles of Jesus Christ and not let the fears of Canterbury prevent them from doing the right thing.

Posted by Bill Carroll at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 1:15pm BST

Dr. Williams regrets that there is not the will to observe the moratorium in such significant numbers ... when has he ever publically regretted the continued crossing of diosesan borders by bishops from other provinces? When has he ever regretted the attempts to steal TEC property? When has he NOT met with 'archbishop' Dunkin'? I was glad to read elsewhere that his imperialist designs on the C of E were thwarted. If he wants to be that kind of archbishop, he should strip off and swim the Tiber.

Posted by Cynthia Gilliatt at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 1:35pm BST

Thank goodness for the House of Deputies. At least someone in in Anglicanism is talking sense--not before time.

Whether the US bishops will have the courage to endorse their work, remains to be seen.

Posted by Rev L Roberts at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 1:39pm BST

Why does nobody have the political wit to counter Dr Sugden's cross questioning of Dr Williams by asking about the moratorium on border crossing? TEC is extremely compliant there and Dr Sugden's 'friends' are not.

Posted by Commentator at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 1:56pm BST

I regret that the Archbishop regrets our House of Deputies living into what is our witness here in the United States. The LGBT community, as baptized Christians, are among the faithful who God is likely to call upon to become members of the priesthood and the episcopate. I bet the same exists in England.

Posted by Susan at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 2:33pm BST

Hhhhhmmmm...I do not recall him ever expressing "regret" over the bigoted actions and pronouncements of the Southern Cone or their blatant disregard for the listening process. Did I miss a memo?

Posted by BillyD at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 2:40pm BST

PIMF: I wrote Southern Cone when I meant Global South...

Posted by BillyD at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 4:10pm BST

I am sick to death of having ABC Rowan break my heart with his heartless pronouncements of "regret" over TEC and his absolute, heartbreaking silence in the face of Duncan et al, ACNA, Nigeria and all those listed above by choirboyfromhell. I'm just sick of it. i was sickened by his virtually dismissive acceptance of our election of Katherine as our Presiding Bishop. I was sickened by his failure to acknowledge the deep heartbreak that went into our Deputies being coerced by threats from across the pond into passing the abomination that was B033. I'm sick of the fear Rowan now tries to engender when he makes his veiled threat against our House of Bishops as they deliberate the overwhelming decision by our Deputies in favor of C025. I am just sick to death of my church living in fear of a smackdown for following the Gospel of Jesus Christ as we have been given by Christ to do in our little corner. I am just plain sick of it. Hear this, ABC Rowan, I express no regret whatsoever for the actions of General Convention 2009 of TEC. I'm proud of our deputies!

Posted by Lois Keen at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 5:33pm BST

when am I allowed to say oy vey?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/jul/13/general-synod-york-anglican

Posted by riazat butt at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 7:03pm BST

I fail to see in the text of D025 the ideas to which the Archbishop objects. He must be looking at some other resolution or reading someone else's gloss.

Posted by ruidh at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 7:16pm BST

While I still don't believe that RW is anything other than fully accepting of gay relationships in his heart of hearts, I think all the above comments are absolutely right: the asymmetry is disgraceful.

Posted by john at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 7:36pm BST

Simon: in the latest update to Ruth Gledhill's blog, she says "A private member's motion put down this weekend at the General Synod calls for the Church of England to be 'in communion' with the new province. It has already received 121 signatures... Of these, four, Blackburn, Winchester, Rochester and Europe, are diocesan bishops and two more are suffragans."

Can we see the text of this motion (and the names of the suffragans) please?

It would really be a quite extraordinarily maladroit action if the Bishop of Gibraltar-in-Europe, whose diocese covers a parallel geographical area to an Episcopal Church jurisdiction (as also Spanish and Lusitanian ones) should be announcing that he is not in fact in communion with the people who are supposed to be his current Anglican Communion mission partners in Europe.

Posted by Fr Mark at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 8:25pm BST

I regret that the Episcopal Church still seems worried about staying in "communion" with this man! Let's get on with building stronger relationships with communities like the Church of Sweden and stop worrying about Canterbury.

Posted by WilliamK at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 8:46pm BST

Can we see the text of this motion (and the names of the suffragans) please?

It would really be a quite extraordinarily maladroit action if the Bishop of Gibraltar-in-Europe, whose diocese covers a parallel geographical area to an Episcopal Church jurisdiction (as also Spanish and Lusitanian ones) should be announcing that he is not in fact in communion with the people who are supposed to be his current Anglican Communion mission partners in Europe.

Posted by: Fr Mark on Monday, 13 July 2009 at 8:25pm BST

This has signatures from over 100 synod members including these bishops:

Blackburn
Winchester
Europe
Rochester
Beverley
Burnley

Looks like you ere right.

Posted by Rev L Roberts at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 9:14pm BST

"Let's get on with building stronger relationships with communities like the Church of Sweden and stop worrying about Canterbury."

Come to think of it, why *aren't* we (ECUSA) in full communion with the Church of Sweden?

Posted by BillyD at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 9:26pm BST

Archbishop Rowan may like GLBT people personally, but he acts like he's decided the only way to hold the Communion together is appease the conservatives and treat GLBT people and their allies with benign neglect.
Has Archbishop Rowan ever publicly rebuked any of the provinces that are so busy tearing apart the TEC province? Has he ever publicly rebuked those people and provinces that are flagrantly ignoring the alleged moratorium on province poaching?
And now, conservative bishops in his own backyard want the CofE to have communion with FOCA. Will he finally step in when cross-border poachers poach the CofE -- or will he still be whining about gay priests and bishops in the US church?

Posted by peterpi at Monday, 13 July 2009 at 11:59pm BST

Maybe the ABC would like to go in to a church full of GLBT people and say, "I'm sorry but for the good of the communion you'll just have to go!" We could give him stones and he could throw them at us and call us terrible names. He's to me that's what he's saying. Maybe he'd be happy if we just give our money and stay in the closet while our GLBT family members around the communion continue to be persecuted and just be quiet, like naughty, dirty children!

I've tried to give this man the benefit of the doubt but I'm beyond that at this point. Didn't he learn anything from Neville Chamberlain?

Posted by BobinSWPA at Tuesday, 14 July 2009 at 12:48am BST

Is it possible to join the Church of Sweden while based here, or become one of its clergy?

Here, the official spiritual process simply mirrors a nineteenth-century parliamentary charade, in which procrastination is transformed into 'waiting in obedience on the Holy Spirit'.

Hello, the Church is dying on its feet and this is how we still deal with things?

Bishops, awake!

Posted by MikeM at Tuesday, 14 July 2009 at 9:14am BST
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